"I'm a switch"

"I'm a switch." In some bdsm communities, those words would be greeted with the same derision that might greet someone who says he or she is bisexual in certain gay and lesbian communities. I believe that in the same erroneous way some people say there's no such thing as bisexual, some from within bdsm communities say there's no such thing as a 'switch'.

But why?

Why do a small, but vocal, minority of bdsmers feel that you're not a 'true bdsmer' if you choose to 'play' on both sides? I hear it often--switches aren't 'real bdsmers' but mere 'players'. The insinuation being that they don't fully comprehend, or understand, the often delicate balance between dominance and submission.

But are they really, as some would have you believe, individuals who shouldn't be considered a part of the bdsm community? People who haven't yet managed to find their true sexual leaning? Even, "players" who don't take the lifestyle seriously enough? Or, are they bdsmers who simply choose to be different from regular bdsmers? A 'third genre' within the bdsm community.

Could it also be that maybe they're seen by some as perhaps just taking more than their share of the already small bdsm community pie? Doubling their chances of finding a suitable partner and/or sexual satisfaction at the supposed expense of 'regular' dominants and submissives. Do some 'purists' perhaps view switches as some kind of sexual opportunists who are willing to take what ever comes their way-- and therefore more than what they're actually entitled to take?

Personally, I think experiencing both sides rather gives a better understanding of the psychological complexities of bdsm. And, since we never stop learning about ourselves, and particularly our sexuality, it seems perfectly nature for some bdsmers to want to experience both sides, and for some to discover that they're neither fully dominant or submissive, but purely switches.

Either way, in a community that is already set on the fringe of 'regular' society, by virtue of being a sexual minority, doesn't it seem rather sad that some people from within it actually choose to factionalise and prejudice each other like this?

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Either way, in a community that is already set on the fringe of 'regular' society, by virtue of being a sexual minority, doesn't it seem rather sad that some people from within it actually choose to factionalise and prejudice each other like this?

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Oh god yes Alex. I lie awake at night thinking the same thing. :278:

I too have met some of the nicest people in my life through the BDSM & D/s community. There's something about this which draws intelligent, imaginative people who care about others. Unfortunately it also draws from the other end of the spectrum....

I don't think I've ever one time managed to open a 'closed mind'- some can stand up & say they have the 'one true path' & everyone else is wrong. I've heard just as much nonsense from within the community as I ever have from the 'straight world'.

It's not just as regards switches, there's also discrimination against people who have online relationships, those in part time D/s relationships, new members to the community & so forth.

Everyone has their own little idea of how a D/s or BD relationship should go. I have no problem with that except when they tell others they're 'doing it wrong' or they can do it that way, but they 'aren't doing it properly.'

I'm a motorcyclist, I enjoy great camaraderie with other bikers. Yet I see the same thing there, if you own a certain brand of US motorcycle you don't wave to anyone who's not riding one. The tourers don't like the racers, the off road roaders don't like....well you get the picture.

There's an old saying by Voltaire or someone 'united we stand, divided we fall'. Never is that more applicable than within this community, which is being attacked from all sides.

I have tremendous respect for Cerina from the 'submissive loving' site, who seems to be able to realise that a D/s relationship is a special thing between two people, & should be respected as such.

Vive la difference...! :cheerlead

Tojo

I think it's totally understandable. We establish a pecking order in all other aspects of our lives... subordinate ourselves to some, dominate others... so why not within the bdsm society.

In light of that, perhaps the word itself, switch, is pejoritive... implying that you can turn your two sides on and off at will.

I'm not a switch (so I'm only presuming...) but I imagine it has more to do with how you interact upon meeting a specific person. If they tend to be dominant, do you slide into the submissive role? and if they automatically show their submissiveness to you, do you naturally slide into a dominant role.

Seems perfectly logical and human to me.

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Originally Posted by Alex Bragi

Why do a small, but vocal, minority of bdsmers feel that you're not a 'true bdsmer' if you choose to 'play' on both sides? I hear it often--switches aren't 'real bdsmers' but mere 'players'. The insinuation being that they don't fully comprehend, or understand, the often delicate balance between dominance and submission.

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Some people just like to feel like they are a part of something, hell I enjoy the feeling myself. I'm part of a minority of people who enjoy ropes and whips and humiliation and that's great.

Thing is, some people have this need to make whatever group they're a part of exclusive. It happens in every club, sport, organization, and social group. Somebody decides that this part of the group are hardcore and this part of the group are players. Bah. It's all crap and I don't suppose it's suprising that it happens in the BDSM community. After all we're a prideful bunch of people with a pecking order mindset.

I don't switch because there's no appeal in it for me. Same reason I don't have sex with men. I don't want to. That's what this and any other lifestyle, organization, or whatever is for anyway. Our enjoyment. That's it. Anything else is just window dressing.

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Originally Posted by ozme52

In light of that, perhaps the word itself, switch, is pejoritive... implying that you can turn your two sides on and off at will.
I'm not a switch (so I'm only presuming...) but I imagine it has more to do with how you interact upon meeting a specific person. If they tend to be dominant, do you slide into the submissive role? and if they automatically show their submissiveness to you, do you naturally slide into a dominant role.
Seems perfectly logical and human to me.

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Hi Sweet Alex.

I had to put in my 2 cents worth here. Switches are not that unique. Considering the ratio of doms to subs, it is almost a forgone conclusion that there are more switches than you think.

Ozme, as you stated, the relationship a switch has with other tops or bottoms are assumed based on the other person's orientation. In other words, the switch slides into the position that the other person needs. NOT SO.

The communion of two souls is determined by the feedback they give each other. I don't know of any switch who doesn't say, 'It takes a special person to top me.'

Switches are assertive. Still, if they congregate together, the more dominant ones become evident and top the more submissive ones. Then it becomes a game of tag.

Switching between being a top or a bottom is not an easy thing. It takes a period of time which varies from switch to switch.

Switching with the same person is absolutely fikked, rare, and can happen if both parties work at it.

It is also a fallacy for most kinsters to say I am a switch because it depends on the kinks they fancy. Some of the kinks are considered bottom kinks. So, it is really not fair to oneself to pigeon hole or make that kind of declaration.

In other words, there are black and white versions of doms, and subs, but switches fall into the gray area. And switching is NOT for everyone.

My favorite observations of being a switch is, 'it's like having your cake and eating it too."

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Originally Posted by nikita

fikked

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Huh?

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Originally Posted by NatalieD

Huh?

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It's a polite way of saying 'fucked.'

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Originally Posted by nikita

Hi Sweet Alex.

I had to put in my 2 cents worth here. Switches are not that unique. Considering the ratio of doms to subs, it is almost a forgone conclusion that there are more switches than you think.

Ozme, as you stated, the relationship a switch has with other tops or bottoms are assumed based on the other person's orientation. In other words, the switch slides into the position that the other person needs. NOT SO.

The communion of two souls is determined by the feedback they give each other. I don't know of any switch who doesn't say, 'It takes a special person to top me.'

Switches are assertive. Still, if they congregate together, the more dominant ones become evident and top the more submissive ones. Then it becomes a game of tag.

Switching between being a top or a bottom is not an easy thing. It takes a period of time which varies from switch to switch.

Switching with the same person is absolutely fikked, rare, and can happen if both parties work at it.

It is also a fallacy for most kinsters to say I am a switch because it depends on the kinks they fancy. Some of the kinks are considered bottom kinks. So, it is really not fair to oneself to pigeon hole or make that kind of declaration.

In other words, there are black and white versions of doms, and subs, but switches fall into the gray area. And switching is NOT for everyone.

My favorite observations of being a switch is, 'it's like having your cake and eating it too."

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Nikita, I'm not sure if you refuted what I said or merely stated what I was sloppily thinking more precisely... Which means I'm confused. But that may be understandable because I don't really understand the switch mentality/psyche.

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Originally Posted by ozme52

Nikita, I'm not sure if you refuted what I said or merely stated what I was sloppily thinking more precisely... Which means I'm confused. But that may be understandable because I don't really understand the switch mentality/psyche.

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Sorry Ozzy, I wasn't refuting or re-stating your post, just adding my 2 cents that turned into an essay on the commonalities/differences of switches.

My intention was to point out that a switch/psyche is not black and white but hard to define in terms of D/s. It would be simpler to define them on kink. ROFL

Is switching a kink? I don't know. Does it really matter?

Well if I'm anything, I'm a Dom- the thought of being someone's slave or whatever has no appeal for me.

However, not so many years ago I did get something out of being tied & teased a little by my wife. Many years ago I had a friend who used to tie me up on regular occasions- her & her girlfriend gave me a fantasy night once or twice which I enjoyed very much.

Sometimes I see pics of a woman in a sexy outfit, with 'that' look in her eye, maybe holding a whip & I think 'hmm'.....

Who knows- maybe we could all be subservient to the right person....:hubba:

Tojo

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Originally Posted by nikita

It's a polite way of saying 'fucked.'

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I thought it might be, but... I'm still confused. What's fucked about something that can happen if both parties work at it? Don't most things require work from both parties?

Sorry to be so picky... I'm just not sure what you're saying. :o

I think, maybe, nikita meant 'fikking rare' ... at least that's how I originally read that sentence in context with the rest of the post.


...of course, now that I've put my foot in it... we only have to see if it must be withdrawn from mine own mouth. LOL

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Originally Posted by ozme52

I think, maybe, nikita meant 'fikking rare' ... at least that's how I originally read that sentence in context with the rest of the post.



...

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Actually, I took it as pure jargon, and certainly not something to be taken literally.

Oh, and Nikita, that was a frikking excellent response that's got me thinking the whole switch thing through again. :)

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Originally Posted by NatalieD

I thought it might be, but... I'm still confused. What's fucked about something that can happen if both parties work at it? Don't most things require work from both parties?

Sorry to be so picky... I'm just not sure what you're saying. :o

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You are not being picky, Natalie. It could have used further clarification, but since that kind of relationship is rare and unusual, I didn't do it.

Here is the phrase that caught your eye:

Switching with the same person is absolutely fikked, rare, and can happen if both parties work at it.

Imagine being submissive to someone who is submissive to you, except not at the same time. This is a BIG deal.

It takes something deeper than BDSM for two people switch like this for each other. The process of turning my domme side loose takes a week to ten days and when I'm there I enjoy it! But, my switch has to be in the same place too, begging to be M's plaything. :whip2:

For his part, when he's in Dom mode, I barely resist, my knees turn to jelly at with a single word or phrase he knows will trigger me to submission. It is easier, IMO, for us to switch to this mode.

There are times when we are both not in the same place. But, we both agree the effort is worth it.

See what I mean about fikked?

:bondage:

This is just my opinion.

Thank you sweet Alex!

But is that the case for everyone? With my first boyfriend, neither I nor he ever had any problems switching roles, often in the middle of a "scene". Granted, we were both pretty young and inexperienced, but I'm not sure if that would make a difference anyway.

Interesting thread. Seems a little over-intellectualizing the topic though. Maybe because with where I’m at with this whole ‘switch’ thing, it seems simple, if not altogether clear.

Sometimes I feel submissive (never had the pleasure however), and sometimes I feel dominant (I have). Depends on the person I want to ‘do the nasty’ with. Of course I always have various fantasies running around in my head about who/what this person would be, and what she might have me do.

Sure would like to find the right woman to find my buttons (shouldn’t be too difficult) and push them, and push them, harshly, relentlessly and with an evil glint in her eye.

sunburst

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Originally Posted by NatalieD

But is that the case for everyone? With my first boyfriend, neither I nor he ever had any problems switching roles, often in the middle of a "scene". Granted, we were both pretty young and inexperienced, but I'm not sure if that would make a difference anyway.

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No, it is not the case for everyone Natalie, I was only referring to myself and my partner.

Btwn Nikita, Alex and Oz they kinda read my mind and thoughts on this one.
I think like a switch mostly cuz I keep wanting to experience more and more.. my own little personal journey. mm and yep depends on who I may encounter will determine in which way I may go :-)

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Originally Posted by NatalieD

But is that the case for everyone? With my first boyfriend, neither I nor he ever had any problems switching roles, often in the middle of a "scene". Granted, we were both pretty young and inexperienced, but I'm not sure if that would make a difference anyway.

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Granted I'm not young but I am inexperienced. Still I don't think I would have any problem what-so-ever switching whether in the middle of a scene or just occasionally, as long as both of us were in agreement.

Starting this late in life I will never know the joys you have experienced but my mind does take me to many places. Believing the mind is the biggest sex organ in the body, that "ain't" all bad!!!!

Kind of wish I could find out what my greater tendencies are D or s.

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Originally Posted by sunburststrat

Interesting thread. Seems a little over-intellectualizing the topic though. Maybe because with where I’m at with this whole ‘switch’ thing, it seems simple, if not altogether clear.

Sometimes I feel submissive (never had the pleasure however), and sometimes I feel dominant (I have). Depends on the person I want to ‘do the nasty’ with. Of course I always have various fantasies running around in my head about who/what this person would be, and what she might have me do.

Sure would like to find the right woman to find my buttons (shouldn’t be too difficult) and push them, and push them, harshly, relentlessly and with an evil glint in her eye.

sunburst

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How has it been that you've never had to pleasure of being a submissive, even if it was in cyber, and know that this is something you want?

When you have been dominant, what has been your peak experience or rather, the part of domming you enjoyed.

Have you a preferred role?

Another two cents.

As Dom who switches I encountered this attitude: “How can you expect respect as a REAL dominating DOM IF you sub to someone _ and, what’s more you are subbing to the same person you Dominate?” Respect is the key word here.

As a sub I have heard comments like this: “Subs cannot even think of dominating someone. You are not devoted sub; therefore you are not a REAL sub. Period.” Not real, meaning - fake. Fake meaning - imposter or ‘just playing’.

Well, I am not fake. And I am not “JUST’ a player. (nothing bad in just playing, it’s great.)

However, I do not see switches as a third party or ‘third word’ because: when I Dom – I DOM, when I sub – I SUB. I might switch in an eye blink or it might take weeks but I am not sitting in some kind of no mans land.

Being on the top – ‘top of the word’ – domming, drinking in all the power given to me. Savoring it, ridding that wave of life giving power is exhilarating. BUT – moving to that place from submissive position is an extra kick And moving from ‘top of the world’ into the deep submission and striving to go deeper is equally exhilarating – if not more. It is well worth the effort it might require.

Very few people can trigger both in me. I am extremely lucky to have one.

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Originally Posted by pejanon

Another two cents.

As Dom who switches I encountered this attitude: “How can you expect respect as a REAL dominating DOM IF you sub to someone _ and, what’s more you are subbing to the same person you Dominate?” Respect is the key word here.

As a sub I have heard comments like this: “Subs cannot even think of dominating someone. You are not devoted sub; therefore you are not a REAL sub. Period.” Not real, meaning - fake. Fake meaning - imposter or ‘just playing’.

Well, I am not fake. And I am not “JUST’ a player. (nothing bad in just playing, it’s great.)

However, I do not see switches as a third party or ‘third word’ because: when I Dom – I DOM, when I sub – I SUB. I might switch in an eye blink or it might take weeks but I am not sitting in some kind of no mans land.

Being on the top – ‘top of the word’ – domming, drinking in all the power given to me. Savoring it, ridding that wave of life giving power is exhilarating. BUT – moving to that place from submissive position is an extra kick And moving from ‘top of the world’ into the deep submission and striving to go deeper is equally exhilarating – if not more. It is well worth the effort it might require.

Very few people can trigger both in me. I am extremely lucky to have one.

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:11_2_102:

LOL. In the interest of continuing a conversation with a woman who said she was submissive to only one person... and dominated all others, we sparred verbally for a while.

Whilst in the chatroom with a single other person, I put it to her to let the other person decide who would dominate whom... fully willing to take my "lumps' so to speak, if the decision went against me, which, needless to say, it did. Turned out they were good friends, (though I suspected my new friend thought I was setting her up.)

Having "lost" the decision, I merely asked the question "When and Where?" No answer. I asked twice more... and she submitted. Totally surprised me considering her previous hard line stance on the subject.

I don't know if this is particulary relevant to a switch thread... but I thought it was none-the-less interesting... not all "switches" are really comfortable in the other role. She certainly wasn't....


P.S. It's unlikely I'll offer that particular deal ever again. LOL

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Originally Posted by Ozme52

not all "switches" are really comfortable in the other role. She certainly wasn't....P.S. It's unlikely I'll offer that particular deal ever again. LOL

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Just my observation regarding your tail... :D

You were the top in that little bet whether or not you lost. Else, she wouldn't have submitted. It didn't matter if she was a switch or not.

IMO, switching is not a role, as in top, bottom, or switch. D/s is a people thing, not a position thing.


I regret that you won't be offering that particular deal again. :whip2:

The 'best of both worlds' is how I look at it. Well it is fun to control your own submissive and help teach her the proper way to serve and emerge more intelligently as well is awesome. However, being submissive yourself lets you explore the erotic feeling of being bound and unable to move.

I love my 'switch' role. Also, it helps you understand the viewpoint of both sides. Therefore, you have a perspective few others do not have.

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Originally Posted by nikita

Just my observation regarding your tail... :D

You were the top in that little bet whether or not you lost. Else, she wouldn't have submitted. It didn't matter if she was a switch or not.

IMO, switching is not a role, as in top, bottom, or switch. D/s is a people thing, not a position thing.


I regret that you won't be offering that particular deal again. :whip2:

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A lost opportunity Nikita? What's your offer? :rose:

I may have been top by most definitions but was, at least for the moment, absolutely willing to accept my 'defeat.' But I will admit, the reason I won't again offer such a deal is that I couldn't put my heart into it and that wouldn't be fair.

I will say this however... she seemed to enjoy the subsequent online interactions with me... I give good cyber. In case you're ever interested. :)

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Originally Posted by nikita

Ozme, as you stated, the relationship a switch has with other tops or bottoms are assumed based on the other person's orientation. In other words, the switch slides into the position that the other person needs. NOT SO.

The communion of two souls is determined by the feedback they give each other. I don't know of any switch who doesn't say, 'It takes a special person to top me.'

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I totally agree. It does indeed take a special person to top me, and I am only interested in topping women with certain qualities. To me, someone who tops or bottoms based on the other person's orientation is submissive even if they end up on top. I have spoken to dominant women before and felt like, if anything, it should be me dominating them, for various reasons.

I call myself a switch because it's easier, but a bit like pejanon was saying; I'm either one or the other at any given time with a specific person, never both. I'm capable of holding 2 relationships and being different roles in each, though I have to keep them seperate. I could talk to them at the same time online in seperate conversations but never in the same, nor could I be playing in the same room with both, it just wouldn't work.

I always think that gay people who deny that someone could be bisexual are no different than those straight people who deny that anybody could be 'really' gay. The same goes for BDSM people who don't believe that someone could be a switch. It comes down to a lack of imagination about how other people are not political banners, but are individuals. I say that as someone who is fully straight and has never had any submissive/masochistic feelings (that I can think of).

As I've gotten older, I've become more comfortable with my sexuality, and part of that maturity is becoming comfortable with other people's sexuality as well. You can be the biggest dominant in the world, or the subbiest sub, and that doesn't make a bit of difference to the sexuality of the guy sitting next to you on the train, or the girl behind the counter at the supermarket. I don't care if you've been in the 'scene' for fifty years - you don't have any more right to define another person's sexuality than their parents do or their priest does.