Question about Psychology of BDSM (with apologies)

[moral-man]

And in response to fantassy - hey guys, we all have our limits. moral-man, I happen to agree with your limits, but I don't feel I have the right to describe people who take things further than me as being perverse: that is, assuming that perverse is taken to be a negative thing, and something that you feel is 'wrong'. Other people who don't do what I do would describe me as perverse, and I don't think I am! so I have to respect that just because something exceeds my limits, I do not have the right to criticise it in others. I do have the right to say that it makes me feel bad and I don't like the idea for me, of course.

Hope that makes sense.

You make perfect sense

But please don't get me wrong, when I say perverse all I'm implying is that that living such a life deviates severely from social and communal behaviour patterns which are seen as normal and favourable in our society. Although you understanably assumed so, I am not making a moral judgement and I don't wish to criticise.

however, I am concerned about the dangers that such a lifesyles may have to the individuals that follow them. I just can't see how a person that dedicates his or her life to beeing a slave to another person (and merely due to his or her sexual urges) could have a fulfilled and loving life. How could this person ever develop respect for his/herself if his/her very partner delights in not showing any. For this and other reaosns I would call a intensive sadomasochistic lifestyle unhealthy.

In regards to Tom's rquest, I am afraid I have no definate answer for what the purpose of life is. I suppose each person may has its individual purpose and responsbilities. Nevertheless, I believe that our sexual urges can influence our way of thinking and can make us act contrary to what we believe or know is right. For that reason I don't think that we could possibly find the meaning in our lives by mindlessly obeying to them and for that reaosn I Personally think that sexual fanatsies are something we should act out with our partners in our bedrooms, and not in our socal life.

[TomOfSweden]

In regards to Tom's rquest, I am afraid I have no definate answer for what the purpose of life is. I suppose each person may has its individual purpose and responsbilities. Nevertheless, I believe that our sexual urges can influence our way of thinking and can make us act contrary to what we believe or know is right. For that reason I don't think that we could possibly find the meaning in our lives by mindlessly obeying to them and for that reaosn I Personally think that sexual fanatsies are something we should act out with our partners in our bedrooms, and not in our socal life.

Who gives this purpose to our lives? Our self or something else? It's relevant because it answers how you reached your conclusion.

Haven't you ever wondered about why it's just that rule-breaking that makes us horny? Doing the forbidden. We're basically just another type of monkey, (primate) and no other monkeys in nature have rules about what kind of sex is acceptable, (Bonobos fuck anything and everybody at any time and in any way). If we take a look at nature, having any rules at all regarding sex, besides consuality is perverse. We are the most perverse animal on the planet, and we on this forum, the so called perverts are following our urges more than any other humans making us, in my humble opinion the least perverted, (ie in conflict with natures design). But then again we're part of nature so I guess anything we do is actually natural and non-perverse, so never mind that.

My point is that there is no right and wrong. All the rules about what is are social constructs most often with very superficial use. Humans aparently love having rules to follow, or we wouldn't have any. And we also love breaking our own rules.

A perfect example was the explosion of Arab music samples in US hip-hop after 9-11. I'm not saying hip-hop is evil or perverse. Islam is in the Western mind forbidden today so it becomes extra exciting no matter how much we try to deny it, (We tend to connect Arabs with Islam even though most muslims aren't Arab). And the records have aparently been selling, so the tactic works.

Following your desires, ie doing things that make you happy I couldn't possibly see anything wrong with. Giving in to lust I wouldn't say is mindlessly following anything. It's denying lust which is mindlessly following the social constructs that any thinking person should see through. Just because most people don't, doesn't make it good, natural, right or non-perverse.

When it comes to sex I don't think any of us are free from the rules that where hammered in at an early age. Either we mindlesly follow them, or we purposefully break them. But free, non of us are.

[sub17]

I just can't see how a person that dedicates his or her life to beeing a slave to another person (and merely due to his or her sexual urges) could have a fulfilled and loving life. How could this person ever develop respect for his/herself if his/her very partner delights in not showing any. For this and other reaosns I would call a intensive sadomasochistic lifestyle unhealthy.

~ Hi MM.
I've always been submissive, but never realized it until I found a dominant man who took the time to educate me. I don't choose to be a slave (*I'm a sub for now, who knows I might be a slave later*) merely due to my sexual urges. I choose to be submissive because I feel that it's my nature. I enjoy pleasing my man, making him the heartbeat of my life, giving him control. I do have respect for myself because I understand that this is a lifestyle choice for me, and I don't have a need to follow society's norms if I choose not to. That is having a lot of respect for one's personal beliefs and choices isn't it? Also, my man/dom is very, very respectful of me. He still has to make the hard choices, but because he respects me, I respect him. It always is a two way street, just with an understanding of the power-relationship. I've been with regular men who don't understand submissive women and because I didn't understand my own nature and needs, I found myself in bad r/ships, VERY unhealthy. So, to me, the bdsm lifestyle works for my personality, needs, and desires - not just sexually, but overall. It's healthy for me and to me, that's all that really matters.

[booklet3]

I choose to be submissive because I feel that it's my nature. I enjoy pleasing my man, making him the heartbeat of my life, giving him control. I do have respect for myself because I understand that this is a lifestyle choice for me, and I don't have a need to follow society's norms if I choose not to. That is having a lot of respect for one's personal beliefs and choices isn't it?

I can so very much identify with this. To me this might be the core of all human relations or even beyond that, relations with the entire world and all that is in it. The magic word to me is and always will be respect. Any set of rules, moral codes, laws, can never be anything but artificial, man-made and so, will always be compromises, made to fit entire societies, often with hidden agenda's built in. But societies are made up of individuals, of which not even two are alike. To me personally, even trying to universally impose sets of rules upon living creatures is fundamentally unnatural. To me, we as humans are basically the same as other animals. Nobody needs to tell an animal which is the Alfa-male or female, they just are, or establish themselves as such. So I think trying to figure out why you are a sub or a master/mistress, is no use at all, you just are.
Please be aware, that this is nothing but my own personal opinion, which I feel very strongly about, no doubt, but not meant to offence anyone. Just my humble contribution to a very interesting discussion.

[booklet3]

Oops,

The first part of my post was meant to be a Quote from Sub17's post. Must have done something wrong, sorry about that.