First off, thank you Psy for bringing up this thread. Thank you Delia for responding. It's a difficult topic, but sometimes difficult conversations need to happen to work things out. Hopefully we're all attempting to do that as we participate in this -- not just prove our own points, but understand others' and respect their disagreement. The true test of freedom is allowing people to be wrong

Thank you all, also, for remaining respectful: clearly tensions are high, but it reflects well on you all that we're concentrating on issues, not individuals (with a couple teensy exceptions )

Remember that winning a debate is rarely about being 'right': it is about mature, logical, focused explanations of different points of view. Appealing to members and staff to frequent the chat room or seek to change it is more likely to succeed with calm and politeness than wrath.