Rape : Semantics, Definitions and Culture

[Donatien]

I've been waiting for the tag team to target me. LOL. I'm undecided if you and ProjectEuropa are just like minded and enjoy ganging up on others or if you're the same guy posting under 2 different names. Either way I was expecting to hear from you on this. Another thing I was expecting was that your reply would veer off into a pompass twist and not make a lot of sense in reference to what was said. I'll give you credit for not dissapointing me on either expectation. I would appreciate though that you refrain from trying to put words in my mouth (i.e., all that stuff about the law being right or wrong on crucifixion, etc.). I said "...common sense and good law enforcement"......I still stand on my original thought that saying if a literal word doesn't exist in another culture then the concept and practice of it doesn't exist there either is at best silly. But if you want to go that way then I'd like to put in the first vote for removing words like "rape", "murder", "robbery", "drug overdose", "disease", etc. from my native language and in that way remove those practices from the culture I live in.

And to think that I had imagined the great John Wayne had died and gone to heaven.!

You are great also Hunter, honest, couragious, moral, defending the right, and speaking from the hip, so unlike us mealy mouthed pinkoliberal Europeans,with all their intellectual twaddle.

All that I was attempting to explain, was that "wrong period" was a moral judgement, and yet later you refer to " common sense and law enforcement"
adding up to three different ways of viewing Rape, when Project Europa considering it purely as legal entity. No I am not he, and I frequentlly disagree though not always saying so.

You are both correct, in that if rape as a crime didn't exist, legally there would be no rape; but you are correct in that the word rape could still be used as a description of nonconsenting sexual intercourse forced by a man on a woman, and it is probable that it would still qualify as a form of assault in law. However in some cultures it may be that, this is ,or was considered just normal human behaviour.

My point was mainly to do with your " wrong period". Perhaps I should just have made my post like this.

"wrong period" by whose authority? who says apart from you?


Instead I went on about a whole range of laws on punishments and social behaviour, in an attempt to demonstrate how difficult it is to come up with clear unequivocal answers that stand up to the sort of questions that I posed to you.( especially that one on age of consent).

I hope that I have been clearer this time round and that you don't turn to your lady with "Another load of....( I'll leave you to finish that sentence; your vocabulary is probably richer than mine) ".

Please forgive us Europeans always making things complicated by tortuous arguments. The Greeks taught us 2500 years ago and we are still doing it

[erotic_nibbles]

.....so unlike us mealy mouthed pinkoliberal Europeans,with all their intellectual twaddle.

I hope that I have been clearer this time round and that you don't turn to your lady with "Another load of....( I'll leave you to finish that sentence; your vocabulary is probably richer than mine) ".

All right....I know Hunter well enough to say that he won't post here again, since that's what he said ....but I am going to reply to this...Hunter is a big boy and can stand up for himself but I will say that not once did he call Europeans pinkoliberals, etc

And quite frankly you stepped in it with me and I don't care if it gets me in trouble to say as much

Now I haven't been anything but nice to you Donatien and you know it....in the chat room the one time we talked you even thanked me right before you left for "drawing you out" into the room and chatting.....which I did at some effort to make sure you were included in the room chat......so I do NOT appreciate you saying....."that you don't turn to your lady with "Another load of..."....Hunter may be my Dom but he doesn't tell me how to think and right now I think you went too far in that and am highly insulted that you dragged me into this in such a fashion.....as if you are trying to insult Hunter by using me to get to him......I'm hurt that you did that and I've lost all regard for you ....and if anyone wants to be mad at me for my posting my honest feelings on this then fine

Oh and one other thing since I'm fighting mad....maybe people should consider stepping into this century and voicing their own opinions rather than dragging up historic dead people all the time claiming they would agree with them...sheesh

Now I'm going to get off my soapbox and take a note from Hunter and not reply here again

~~nibbles~~

P.S. To TG....well you said I should be more controversial on the board and voice my honest opinions....So there it is and now I'm going to go be sick from being this upset

[Donatien]

All right....I know Hunter well enough to say that he won't post here again, since that's what he said ....but I am going to reply to this...Hunter is a big boy and can stand up for himself but I will say that not once did he call Europeans pinkoliberals, etc

Nibbles I am so very sorry ; the last thing i would want to do is to upset you , or HUNTER either. I am very pleased for you and what I deduced about his qualities I admire also. You are quite correct Hunter never said anything about mealy mouthed pinkoliberal Europeans I DID. I repeat I DID.
and the " another load of" was, referring back to his rather pungent comments on my previous post, just a little fantasy of what he might comment TO you about MY latest one.

This only highlights what I hinted in my post, we in europe look at things in a different way. In the UK we have, or certainly had, a quality for self mockery and irony which is, as I am coming to realize not so prevalent across the pond.

I was actually saying those things against my self to introduce a more light hearted mood, rather than slinging mud around .

Please read the post again with what i have said in mind,
and let HUNTER know that I never suggested such a thing. NOtice that I was very careful to put all my quotes in inverted commas.

I am really so sorry for you to be upset in this way.
.

[Katmandu]

Hmmm, I have watched this thread for quite some time. Please allow me to step in a moment to try and soothe some ruffled feathers, here.

Hunter, I agree with what you said, and how you said it.

Nibbles, you are correct in that D. should not have brought you in to this 'discussion', but I do not believe he was trying to hurt/ insult you. And, he did publicly apologize.

D., I know you speak for yourself, but I also wish to speak about what I feel. I grew up in Boston, the child of European immigrants, and very proper. I understand your winded-ness, and pension for bringing up 'dead people'. It is, to me, a breath of fresh air! I've spent my entire life subjugating that part of myself, in order to fit into this American society.

This entire topic was started to elicit our thoughts, and, I believe, a debate usually follows posted thoughts. I've enjoyed reading the ideas going back and forth between everyone. But that's all it was, a DEBATE over concepts and ideas. I truly believe no intentional harm was done towards anyone. And, apologies were presented when toes were stepped on.

We must all, in here, agree to disagree. After all, isn't that WHY we are all present in this Forum? Because we have thoughts and ideas (about sex, mostly) that don't fit into the 'norm'?

OK, off my soapbox. Carry on, all.........

[Barton]

I agree with Kats here. This is an interesting thread, and as with most of the threads posted here it contains many different views from our varied community. There is and has always been room for all of us to have our say, and if some toes get accidently stepped on this is the price for honest discussion. I myself have been in the position of being angry at anothers post and posting my anger until TG had to step in and sort it out.

My point is, our disagreements are a healthy thing and should not be taken as a personal attack. It is okay to get mad but please do not "leave in a huff". We need all our active members to make the forum a viable community.

Barton

[slavelucy]

Crikey. Right...

Having read through all this, my own feeling is this: i tend to agree with Donatien in terms of the actual points on the concepts of legality, over-arching legal points and semantics...HOWEVER, i also think the tone used to present these points was overly ironic to the point of being hurtful, and hence although not intended (which i honestly don't believe it was), i can easily see why nibbles (and Hunter) are upset/offended and hopefully Donatien's apology and explantion for some of the particularly hurtful bits goes some way to alleviating that offense.

I actually believe both Donatien and Hunter's post strayed from the spirit of peaceful debate both in choice of vocab and tone, but getting too personal in references is going too far.

Anyway, nibbles - you have every right to stand up and say you're angry or hurt, if you (or anyone) doesn't, then none of us can attempt to modify our tone in future posts, something i'm sure Donatien will endeavor to do in the future.

i'm gonna take this opportunity to remind everyone to make us of the 'report' feature if ever something steps too far over the line, we value Hunter, Nibbles, and Donatien as members and I would be happy to intercede on anyone's behalf.

If anyone wants to discuss this particular issue any further, please could you PM me or contact me on yahoo. Thanks.

sl