"Barely Submissive"- A Question of Being

[Rhabbi]

tessa,

I see this a lot. Submission is trained out of you by the culture, this does not mean that you are barely submissive, it just means you have not found the proper person to submit to.

I am also with Russell in that a challenge is a lot more fun for me than a simple surrender. If we go back and forth a bit a sub and I can learn a lot more about each other than if I simply walk up and she does whatever I want. The process of training is one of learning about each other so that we know the strengths and weaknesses we have and forge us into a complete whole, stronger than the parts.

I prefer a barely submissive woman to a door mat. If I wanted a doormat I would go to Home Depot.

[Dorkalicious]

I think it really does take finding that "one" to submit to. Though I "fight" Requiem, I don't struggle nearly as much as I did before (other relationships*). Being under his complete control, being able to give him that much trust... It's an amazing feeling. He hasn't abused it at all, and though we have a lot of the relationship to go (At least I would love to believe so ) I doubt he ever will.

It's amazing to think about bdsm relationships. I've been finding that they are actually just like vanilla, with a different perspective.

-Finding "the one"
-Trust
-Communication
-Responsibility
-Give and Take


Honestly, what is the difference?


*Could honestly be that he has a genuine interest in it too

Oh dear....I've gone on a tangent, haven't I?

[Beswitchingly Positive]

tessa,

I see this a lot. Submission is trained out of you by the culture, this does not mean that you are barely submissive, it just means you have not found the proper person to submit to.

I have to say there was a time that I never would have agreed with this.

Rhabbi, I have to tell you, now, I think you are right Sir!

I think this is right on, for me anyway. I have always longed for a proper man to submit to, loved the idea of letting go in this way and wondered so many times if it was even possible for me (being a strong willed creature) to do so. I always knew he was out there. I met "Him" a couple of times, but timing was bad in some way, circumstance outside the bedroom, whatever it was it just did not work out to a level past "barely submissive."

Luckily, I have met a man who, somehow, (I think it has to do with our chemistry togther, and lucky timing...) he has inspired me to submit. I found the proper person to submit to at the proper time, not just on an intellectual and physical level, but completely, with my entire heart.



I am also with Russell in that a challenge is a lot more fun than a simple surrender. If we go back and forth a bit a sub and I can learn a lot more about each other than if I simply walk up and she does whatever I want. The process of training is one of learning about each other so that we know the strengths and weaknesses we have and forge us into a complete whole, stronger than the parts.

I prefer a barely submissive woman to a door mat. If I wanted a doormat I would go to Home Depot.

Excitement invloves tension, resistance, friction. I understand the mental shift, the deeper feeling of being able to let go.

I can give Him the power, let him do the deciding, and willingly follow his wishes...not that I never resist, not that I have no ideas of my own...he is growing to expect certain, hmm, creative acquiescence.

If he did all I want when I want it, well, it would get predictable. I would not want a predictable Dom. Blah.

The amazing feeling is caring oh so much that he gets what He wants from me. When I know he is happy with me, this is when my deep submissive need is most satisfyed. The whole point of it, His happiness satisfies me and I am His.

Flip the switch.

Ok, on the other side, the object of my desire to dominate, currently a beautiful, tragically unsure woman I know...if she was not so in need of direction, we would not have the dynamic we have. She might submit to me sexually, eventually. We have repeatedly discussed this, but we both know it is a big step. In the meantime, I am helping her fix some things in her life, work on some of her baggage. How will she know what she wants until she is less burdened in herself? When she is more stable, then maybe, if she still is asking me for sex...funny, I feel desire for her, but it evaporates because she is not disciplined enough in her mind. I want to know she is happy enough with herself to really know what she wants, and if it is me, well, as long as it is okay with the Man...

I am happy with her as we are because I love her, not the idea of her doing something in particular.

I have ideas, but the ideas of how deep it could go are not the relationship itself.

She wants to fix her problems, to grow and learn, and I am honored that she has chosen me as a friend, and as sexy as she is this never has to involve sex. Ever feel like something is big and inevitable? It just feels like a natural progression, for me to continue be this increasingly dominant, sexual person for her, and for her to be more and more eager for my approval. We both are loving it.

Submission is trained out of us by the culture. In America we are encouraged to climb over each other, to get "on top", join that rat race, bigger house bigger car, become the boss, make more money... arrrrgh...is this really the dream? Control of money and people are powers falsely equated to satisfaction by many.

Getting control of myself and therefore getting what will satisfy me, this is my goal.

Am I close, oh wise Rhabbi? Is that kind of what you meant by 'trained out of you by the culture'?

For me, a large part of the amazing satisfaction I feel--having found a proper man to dominate me in a way that inspires such a deep feeling of submission--is letting go. When I let go of how I thought it should be, started floating with Him instead of swimming upstream, that's when it felt deep.

He lifts the stress of my natural ability to be the strong responsible woman that I actually am. I am a switch, but I do not feel 'barely submissive' with him.

When I think I have been too cold or blunt with my girl, I ask her if I have been too hard on her, and she hugs me and says "no no no, I like it when you talk to me like that, it helps me, please don't stop", I feel deeply dominant, like I am doing a good job.

I see no conflict; I am strong and capable. With Him, I willingly submit. With her, I responsibly lead. These are strong positions for me. They are not mutually exclusive. Letting go my own self doubts and anxieties and cultural "training" has helped me with both sides of me.

There seem to be plateaus, levels if you will, that I reach as I gain experience in both dominance and submission.

I have to have both.

The delicious power to help my girfriend see her gifts by guiding her, and the gift of power to my man so that he may reach a greater satisfaction (and that I may benefit from his wisdom and strength) are both possible because I am with the proper people at the proper time in our lives.

However it plays out, It all comes down to properly pleasing myself.

I gave up thinking I knew how things should be, and started believeing in myself and my ability to find my own happiness. Even when I had no lovers at all.

tessa, this is a very cool, deep thread. Reading all these ideas and explaining myself helps me to clarify my own feelings.

You have helped me learn.

thanks for this thread tessa, you rock, and not 'barely'...

BP

[tessa]

Getting control of myself and therefore getting what will satisfy me, this is my goal.

You said so much, so many wonderful thoughts to take in and hold close, but the one above is what reached out and stroked me. Wisdom is a beautiful thing.

I will be diving into your words over and over again, letting them soak in deeply.

Thank you, Ms. Beswitchingly.

~hugs~
tessa

[TomOfSweden]

tessa,

I see this a lot. Submission is trained out of you by the culture, this does not mean that you are barely submissive, it just means you have not found the proper person to submit to.

I am also with Russell in that a challenge is a lot more fun for me than a simple surrender. If we go back and forth a bit a sub and I can learn a lot more about each other than if I simply walk up and she does whatever I want. The process of training is one of learning about each other so that we know the strengths and weaknesses we have and forge us into a complete whole, stronger than the parts.

I prefer a barely submissive woman to a door mat. If I wanted a doormat I would go to Home Depot.

Hmmm..... Russels and your post got me thinking. Is it really challenge you, Russel and I are after? Surely it's not challenge for the sake of challenge? And surely all Doms want women who want to be doormats, or we wouldn't be drawn to being Masters? With challenge, do you mean a woman/sub who speaks up and tells you what it is she needs, and the challenge is to give her that? The reason why I don't want a docile door mat isn't that it would be boring, (which I'm sure it wouldn't be) but the fact that I would know that I'm probably not giving her what she needs. In my experience the real challenge is to get a sub to share the demands she has in way other than having a tantrum and standing, tears streaming, with her bags packed in our hall.

[tessa]

I've been thinking some more on this, thanks to all these incredible replies.

First off, the term "doormat", used in any context with the topic of submission, is bugging the heck out of me. No disrespect meant to anyone. Submission, in whatever form it appears, whether it be high-spiritedness or quiet dignity or anything in between, brings with it a great amount of power. To deem any of it with the term "doormat" is doing all submissives an injustice. When that term is used, I think of misguided souls who just don't know their worth yet.

Tom brought this shadow of a thought to the forefront of my mind when he said:

And surely all Doms want women who want to be doormats, or we wouldn't be drawn to being Masters? The reason why I don't want a docile door mat isn't that it would be boring, (which I'm sure it wouldn't be) but the fact that I would know that I'm probably not giving her what she needs. In my experience the real challenge is to get a sub to share the demands she has in way other than having a tantrum and standing, tears streaming, with her bags packed in our hall.

Ok, ignoring the word "doormat", what he said was what I wanted to say and didn't know how to say it. The dynamic of the D/s or M/s relationship is about someone having control and someone giving up control. Of course, there are extremely varying degrees of what "control" means to every individual, but without both those parts, not much but sheer frustration is going to be going on, right? For some Dominants, the idea that a submissive would be docile and immediately obedient is a massive turn-on. But for other Dominants, being involved with someone struggling with their need to submit is what they prefer. Ok, that's my thoughts on it anyway.

Some submissives are very aware and cognizant of who they are and what they want to be. They push a Dominant's limits as much as the Dominant pushes their's. But for some submissives, they are still in the learning process, trying to understand all of it and where their place is. They need (we need) guidance and patience and training, to get us to the point of assured awareness and knowing our worth. I'm learning from the Dominants here that the challenge submissives like that present doesn't make us worthless or useless. We aren't for everyone, but neither is every Dominant appealing to every submissive (sorry Doms ) It's about the journey of "more"- finding each other and discovering just how far and deep the relationship can go.

How's that for thinking out loud?

tessa

[TomOfSweden]

I'm learning from the Dominants here that the challenge submissives like that present doesn't make us worthless or useless.

Isn't the notion contradictory? Just the fact that a submissive is willing to let herself be humiliated by me and be my doormat, makes her highly valued and useful. I'm marrying my doormat on Saturday. I value her more than life itself. I can't think of a more valuable person in my entire life.

She's highly submissive. I don't like the term docile, because in my mind that's connected to strong medication...but she always obeys my every command. So far since we've met she has only gone against my orders once, and it was quite a trauma for her, (and this was before the whipping).

But she's also very opinionated, (not to mention smarter than me) and we have plenty of debates and discussions about a variety of subjects. My point is that I see no conflict between being extremely submissive and training your Master to suit your needs.

After all I do love her and I try my best to make her happy, without violating my own highly selfish needs.

[tessa]

I'm marrying my doormat on Saturday. I value her more than life itself. I can't think of a more valuable person in my entire life.

Only Tom could say this and make me want to weep girly, emotional, heart-felt tears. And do so, knowing he used the term "doormat" just to make a pointed point.

*sings* "You're the meaning in my life. You're the inspiration. You bring feeling to my life. You're the inspiration." Ok, I only do karaoke when I'm REALLY drunk (think 3 swallows of moonshine). *ggls* It's elementary, my dear tessa! Great, though barely submissive, minds tend to think alike, which is a good thing, too, 'cause I'd hate to be the only wannabe doormat in these here parts! *huggles* Of course the panties will be cute! I was thinking of a schoolgirl uniform with ruffled panties underneath. *weg*

Oh now, I did that moonshine thing once. Once. I sang, too. I called up the principal of the high school and sang, "You are my sunshine, my only sunshine..." No. I have no idea why. Just seemed the thing to do at the time. Hence the "once". Red, Red...you aren't the only wannabe...umm...outside the door, shoe-wiping thingee in these here parts. and I think the ruffled panties idea is brilliant! We so gotta do that! Love ya, girlie! ~huggles~

pixie (or should I say lurking beauty? ) this information has been extremely helpful for me too. This place is just incredible.

D-lish, I am so happy to know you are finding what you need and want in a relationship. Painful has a new meaning for you these days, doesn't it??

[TomOfSweden]

Only Tom could say this and make me want to weep girly, emotional, heart-felt tears. And do so, knowing he used the term "doormat" just to make a pointed point.

he he. Pointy, that's me. Stab, stab.

[jeanne]

I've been thinking a lot about this topic since tessa brought it up and have been following the posts closely. I, too, like firefly's term: realistically submissive. To me it means to be submissive to the extent that I'm able at any given moment, understanding that sometimes real life just gets in the way. We will always fall short on anything that we want to do really well, simply because we're human and have trouble accepting that sometimes, good enough is good enough. After the months that I have been reading posts here, and knowing myself pretty well, I think that many submissives are perfectionists! We want to be perfect for our Doms - perfectly submissive, perfectly beautiful, perfectly sexy... Well, who the heck defines what perfect is? I vow, beginning now, to let my husband define perfect - not me, not society, not anyone else. I know (not just believe) that he is happy with me, as I am today. He likes the extent of submissiveness that I exhibit, he thinks I'm beautiful and sexy. I have no need to worry beyond that! I daresay that all of us with loving, sometimes deliciously harsh Doms in our life can say exactly the same thing. Let's celebrate that, rather than tear ourselves down.

Whew - didn't realize there was a rant inside me waiting to come out - it's over now!

[tessa]

Tessa and All,

This is a Great topic I think

Thanks. You're kind to say so.

In my entire Life I have only actually Submitted to 2 other PPL. And I am primarily Dominant with others. Does that make me "Barely Submissive"? Or does that just make me Knowledgable enough and Experienced enough to Know the differences of what Is and what is not?

For me, "Barely Submissive" means I have walked and struggled through the Fire, and I have come out the other side Whole. It means I have the opportunity to continue to Grow and Learn, and I have and I will. Respectfully~SidheWolf

I got so much from your words here. Thanks again.

Seeing this thread, I realize that maybe those glimpses into the submission weren't as far off base as I re-thought they were.

So thank you for your words and insights.

And thank you right back for your comments. You didn't know how you'd be helping either, I'm guessing.

I’ve never thought about dom as high and sub as low as in hierarchy which is vertical but rather horizontal as in dom/sub in a power exchange. She may be at my feet but if I’m not in tune with her needs I may as well be at hers.

This was very well stated. I appreciate your thoughts here. My thanks to you as well.

tessa

[Tojo]

I've just discovered this excellent thread- very well put Tessa.

I can't sit here & read the whole 5 pages, but I hope someone pointed out that submission is a journey into the unknown. Somewhat like closing your eyes & jumping off a cliff- hoping the one you're trusting your life to knows what he's doing, & also hoping you'll be OK if he doesn't!

Feelings can come up like never before, whole chunks of sadness & terror can be uncovered in the journey. It can be likened to going into therapy.

I'd be hesitant myself- Doms might sound good & look impressive sometimes, but to be a true sub & just let go of everything- that amazes the hell out of me.