Out of body religious experiences

[Sir_G]

WHAT?!?!? The fact that scientists change their theories all the time should add to their credibility, not retract from it. The fact that the world in the religious texts doesn't change, doesn't that indicate that they aren't open to new information and updates?

Off-course scientists aren't infallible. anybody claiming they are should be avoided like the plauge, (like the pope for instance hint hint)

This is an interesting point you raise Tom, however, if I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone advocating science as their basis for life, and what they believe in I'd be a very rich man. They claim science is the answer to all the worlds problems. Some are very dogmatic, others almost fanatical about their belief in the science "GOD".

Here's a brief definition of religion:

Religion has been defined in a wide variety of ways. Most definitions attempt to find a balance somewhere between overly sharp definition and meaningless generalities. Some sources have tried to use formalistic, doctrinal definitions while others have emphasized experiential, emotive, intuitive, valuational and ethical factors.

Sociologists and anthropologists tend to see religion as an abstract set of ideas, values, or experiences developed as part of a cultural matrix. For example, in Lindbeck's Nature of Doctrine, religion does not refer to belief in "God" or a transcendent Absolute. Instead, Lindbeck defines religion as, "a kind of cultural and/or linguistic framework or medium that shapes the entirety of life and thought… it is similar to an idiom that makes possible the description of realities, the formulation of beliefs, and the experiencing of inner attitudes, feelings, and sentiments.”[4] According to this definition, religion refers to one's primary worldview and how this dictates one's thoughts and actions. (Tom I note you have a Degree in Logic. Could it be that your primary world view is based on logic ie. it's your religion? And therefore you struggle with the idea of Faith etc. I know you are a Star Trek fan. Even the Vulcan's grudgingly accept that humans whilst highly illogical do have something going for them with their passions, beliefs, and emotions.)

There is no difference in believing that science has the answers than believing in, as you put it, some supernatural force. Scientists are just as fanatical as the next person. I've seen them turning blue in the face over a THEORY. A proven theory - no, just a theory. Einstein's theory of relativity is still that, a theory. We accept it as fact though today because string theory hasn't got enough disciples yet. No doubt the person who can give the most convincing argument there will become the new scientific messiah of this millenium. Religious texts may not change but they way they are interpreted certainly does.

(My Scientific God has just been shattered I just read that Einsteins theory of relativity is obsolete.) A lot of what science comes up with these days are THEORIES but we blindly say "OK I'll go along with that..." because they are scientists. Yet I can come up with a theory and be laughed out of my own house. What's the difference. Do numbers, degrees, and fellowships make them anymore or less credible than Saint Maria Francis Qui Gon Kenobi?

I think the bottom line is that we live in a changing world. Both science and religious beliefs will change and evolve whether we like it or not. One of my favourite quotes comes from the Matrix where Morpheus is on the mat before Commander Loch over his religious beliefs:

Loch: Dammit Morpheus not everyone believes what you do!

Morpheus: My beliefs do not require them to.

My goodness I'm talking around in circles I think I just disappeared up my own bum. It's ok though the string theory is hanging out I'll just pull on that and I'll be right.

Mung beans mortals!

G