Topping from the Bottom?

[Euryleia]

I do think that it does exist--pushy bottoms who care more about their own gratification than any real interest in submission. However, I also think that it is all too often a cop-out by insecure and inexperience Tops who don't know how to control the scene or assert their will over another.

[DIXIE LASS]

I do think that it does exist--pushy bottoms who care more about their own gratification than any real interest in submission.

Euryleia,

Which is this person you call a "pushy bottom"?
1. a self-proclaimed sub
2. a self-proclaimed bottom

Isn't a bottom, by definition, supposed to "care more about their own gratification than any real interest in submission"?

DIXIE

[cadence]

Topping from the Bottom is not about a submissive discreetly suggesting something during a scene, or a submissive becoming uncomfortable and scared enough to use thier safeword/signal.
If a submissive is worried enough that they cannot have a voice during a time when they feel they should be quiet, then they shouldn't be there in the first place.

I find it funny everyone talks about communication, however being able to communicate during a scene seems to be regarded as some form of nastiness on the submissives part.
Topping from the Bottom begins to have so many various shades of grey, no one really knows what it means.


Topping from the Bottom to me is more of a form of manipulation and control the majority of the time.
Just as there are overbearing, too controlling Dominants, there are overbearing, controlling submissives, someone who is intent on having things exactly their way. And it doesn’t spill into the scene department either, they can manipulate the situation they are in according to what they want out of the relationship.

Isn't a bottom, by definition, supposed to "care more about their own gratification than any real interest in submission"?

DIXIE

A bottom does have a slight interest in submission, but only in the context of a kinky sex scene, other than that they have no other interest in submission outside of that context.

As a submissive it is all about me and I care more about my gratification than anyone else's. If I don't then I will always be unfulfilled and unhappy.
Sure I am there to please another, but in reality, if I'm not happy, then I cannot please someone else effectively.

Everything I do comes from my ideas. I say what I like, what I want, and what I want to try. That doesn't mean it will happen, but I do get to do most things. If I don't like something, I say so and again that doesn't mean I will not have to do it.
If something is truly uncomfortable for me, I may try it, but if I can't do it, then I won't. It will either be revisited at a later time, or modified to make it easier for me.
In my opinion that is not topping from the bottom, it's clarifying how I can manage with things and keep everyone happy.

If I continued to manipulate by never trying something new, or constantly trying to do something the same way over and over again because I like it, and cohercing him into letting me do it that way, I would say that would be Topping from the Bottom.
I wouldn't be a very good submissive if I can't broaden my horizons.

[leo9]

I find it funny everyone talks about communication, however being able to communicate during a scene seems to be regarded as some form of nastiness on the submissives part.

The hardest thing to teach my slaves is that keeping information from me - about their feelings, about their needs - is disobedience. A good slave tells hir Master the things he needs to know to get the best from hir.

[StormKat]

The hardest thing to teach my slaves is that keeping information from me - about their feelings, about their needs - is disobedience. A good slave tells hir Master the things he needs to know to get the best from hir.

This scenario was a sticking point for me with the dom who introduced me to this stuff. I've always been a total rules lawyer, always looking for the out or playing the angle in any situation, controlling my responses to lead where I wanted. Once I fell into this dom/sub thing, that included what info I shared with him. I'd answer his questions, never lying, but perhaps shading what I said. He caught onto my natural inclination pretty quickly though, and began requiring me to fully & completely disclose everything. Needless to say, it was a rough adjustment, certainly part of our dominance struggle, but I eventually got used to giving him access to all of my thoughts...

[thir]

Euryleia,


Isn't a bottom, by definition, supposed to "care more about their own gratification than any real interest in submission"?

DIXIE

I think that depends very much on where you are and what you put into the various expressions. I do not get the impression that there is that much consensus.