Quote Originally Posted by steel1sh View Post
Why? How can any one country (or individual, for that matter) be of help to anyone else unless they are in a position to help themselves?

In other words...I cannot give to charity (monetary-wise) unless I have money to give, therefore I need to ensure I am a contributing member of society lest I become one of the citizens holding out MY hand for a donation! Nor can a country help another country if they are so far into debt they cannot dig themselves out of the hole they're in. It all looks fine and glossy on the surface, but dig a little deeper and it turns into a dark pit.
It seems to me that people claiming charity begins at home are the very people who are meanest in giving any form of charity at all. America gives, per head of population, relatively little aid to the rest of the world. Assuming for a moment that America believes charity begins at home, which country in (say) the whole of the African continent has needs which are less pressing than those of America or Americans?

Nor does the "We can't afford it, because we're too deep in debt" argument hold. America is only so far in debt because it has the wealth to support such debts. Otherwise, people wouldn't lend to it, would they? America is still the richest country in the world, hugging its wealth to itself like a Dickensian miser at Christmastime.


Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
There are some huge complications here.

In some sense the US is one of the poorest nations in existence. Name any other nation with a debt anywhere close to 10.8 Trillion, and an out of control deficit?

Also in the US there are some incredibly wealthy people who are doing the right thing, look at Gates, Clinton, and various other "retired" individuals who run charitable foundations that are investing in projects to make a huge difference.

With all due respect to MMI, people have been throwing money on the problem for an entire generation, and if money were all it took to solve the problem it would be done by now. All the research in this area points to it being far more complicated than that.

At an individual level I think its a matter of individual rights and beliefs. I personally am not that well off and I sometimes give to causes I believe in, but claiming someone has a duty to throw money on a non-solution to a problem is rather extreme.

I think if you needed sizable donations from the rich for a plan to remedy global poverty you'd see a lot of success, provided the plan was going to work and could convince people it was going to work. Lots of people are jaded to Project X, Project Y or Project Z that will "save Africa" because their previous donations resulted in no real change, and those projects have largely failed spectacularly.
While what Gates and his ilk are doing is highly commendable ... perhaps they recognise where their vast wealth comes from ... what they are able to give is a miniscule fraction of what is needed, and only whole nations, acting in concert with others, can really make an impact.

You say the problem is complicated, and I'm sure it is - more complicated, no doubt, than I can possibly comprehend - because I see things simply, and I am ruled by emotions in some issues, where cold facts and logic would argue for death by starvation of the majority, or mutilation and rape instead by corrupt warlords and politicians, while the minority prosper peacefully in unimaginable (for some) luxury.

Who, like me, finds it sickening that the UK government can give $50bn or so to the Royal Bank of Scotland and the American government will give it billions of dollars more support, but the developed nations cannot rustle up $200bn between them to help undeveloped nations cope with global warming?

Like you say, Complicated. Maybe, however, it really isn't quite so complicated. Perhaps the solution is just bigger numbers: throw even more money at the problem - yes the West CAN afford it! Or, more likely, perhaps the problem is, and always will be, an on-going one which requires ongoing contributions to redistribute wealth at least enough to salve our calloused consciences and to ensure innocent, helpless farmers and villagers can look beyond yet another failed harvest and aspire to living on a little more than $1 a day.