Equality?

[DuncanONeil]

Did America give the slaves freedom or was there a war. Did American Congress one day end segregation or did the common black man have to fight for the rights. Maybe you can cite one of the noble ruler freeely giving rights but for every example you find I will find 10 where rights had to be fought for.

Little bit off in facts here. The "war" was not fought to end slavery. In fact the last "northern" state ended slavery in 1804. So of 33 states 20 had ended slavery without a war.

You are nitpicking. Taking money from rich and giving to poor is not saying you want equalty. I said people want to raise the standard of the poor and narrow the gap between rich and poor. Narrowing a gap is not the same as closing a gap. Nobody is suggesting we should all be paid and taxed the same irrespective of job. Please dont nitpick.

Raise the standard of the poor? Could you explain just what you mean by that? As for narrowing the gap. How do you propose to do that without confiscating from the "rich".
Without all making the same there will always be "poor". That brings us back to a description of that standard and what would be a sufficient raising.

Yes I totally agree but is it the principle of taxation that is the problem or the fact that government is wasteful and the brunt of taxation falls on the middle class. I say the principle is fair its just the governemt is inept and inefficient and the middle class bears the brunt of their mistakes.

There is no way you can support that the brunt of taxation falls upon the shoulders of the middle class. Again we are discussing a category of people without definition. Would you accept that the top 25% of earners are not in the middle class?
The minimum income to be included in that top 25% is about $64,700 with an AGI floor of about $32,000. These people pay $833 billion in tax. They take in 68% of the nations income and PAY 86% of the nations taxes. Now explain to me how the "middle class" bears the brunt of taxes! Heck half of the "middle class" pays little to no taxes!

But you do not comment on whether the principle of taxation wrong or is it simply those managing it are incompetent. If a bad pilot crashes a plane you dont say the principles of aerodynamics are wrong do you !

Taxation is one of those things that can easily be qualified as a necessary evil. However, income tax is the worst of those evils. It is less of a means to support the Government and more of a means of control. As such it is WRONG! That is one of the reasons I used to favor a flat tax. That is until I found about about the FairTax. Now our (ahem) representatives in Washington are raising the specter of a VAT tax on top of our onerous income tax. If there is anything that hurts the poor it is a VAT. Vat is easy to say. Then they point to all the "old countries" that have a VAT. But what is it? A tax that added to the price of an item EACH AND EVERY TIME (V)alue is (A)dded to some raw (or previously produced) material it has (T)ax added to the new price. Simple example;

• Seed is turned into wheat
• Wheat is turned into flour
• Flour is turned into bread
• Bread is sliced

At a 7% VAT this adds some 32% to the price of that loaf of bread.