Something I noticed while reading stories.

[veru_skjava]

Hmmmmmmm I do not feel consenual is important, I actually search for n/c codes, as I prefer them.

The difficulty I have is the brutality of some stories.

Maybe this can illustrate what I mean. I was listening to an online scene, the slave was bound between two posts, and lots of delicious tortures were used, electric, floggers, canes, whips, **mmmmmm** delicious.

Following her being released, folding herself up into a ball on the floor, a second dominant came over and kicked her in the stomach!

THAT is sooooo unacceptable to my interior reactions. In fact it so dispturbed me that I have a very hard time with that individuals involvement in scenes, online OR (and especially) off.

I am not criticizing, just stating what does it for me, and what turns me of completely!

Thanks,
veru skjava

[Finding_Fantasy]

I miss that. BDSM_Tourguide and myself met in a chatroom (yes we are an online success story). When we first started going there, there were scenes every night, slaves and submissives served their Masters and Mistresses, and were respectable. Now, if you try to have a scene they have a heart attack. Granted now there are a lot of "newbies" and none of the "old folks" as we called them. We rarely go there anymore because a lot of people there are flakey. We have been hard pressed to find a good chat place. I was given a good one when I first came here, but it won't work from my work computer. It's too old Ah well

As for the submissive being kicked by a dominant while she was down...I would have lost it, being a submissive or not. I don't care who you think you are or what you think you are, you never kick someone when they are down. It's a general humane pricipal. I can't tell you how much that makes me mad.

[veru_skjava]

smiles I agree completely!

here are two wonderful chat rooms, LOL ok so i am biased,

the first one truely encourages scenes, though not "serves" and as I have stated elsewhere is a chat room named after a story here on the site.
the owner of the room, DemonLady is the author of that story. here is the link:
Raiders Dungeon chat room

This room encourages sceneing as well as serves of all degrees, be sure to read the ettiquette and rules page. I will give the front door of the site to this location.

The D/s Garden

Since we are at yahoo together, you know the other names I go by, I'm sure you may find these two loacations rather enjoyable.

I hope to see you there.

*smiles*

veru skjava

[Finding_Fantasy]

That's great! Thanks a lot veru. Having the links here will help since I don't actually like to leave a trail of where I have been at work. I'm allowed to surf, but somehow I think they would frown on me using it for this kind of stuff.

[boccaccio2000g]

As for the submissive being kicked by a dominant while she was down...I would have lost it, being a submissive or not. I don't care who you think you are or what you think you are, you never kick someone when they are down. It's a general humane pricipal. I can't tell you how much that makes me mad. [/B][/QUOTE]

I have been following the exchange between you and Veru with some interest. A question -- "I can't tell you how much that makes me mad" -- are you referring to real life, in those words (in which case I would absolutely agree with you, of course) ? Or to stories in which villainous characters demonstrate such brutality as well?

Villains, by definition, are not going to observe conventional codes of conduct or morality.

We each have our own comfort zone, I suspect, beyond which we quickly grow uncomfortable with additional levels of violence. Mine is set fairly high, I think, (in my stories, I mean), but even so, I get about as many requests to ratchet the violence up a notch, as I do to ratchet it down.

No one ever says I got it just right. :-)

Do other authors get similar comments? Does anyone ever heed them? Or do you just continue writing in your own way as best you can?

Thanks in advance,

Boccaccio

[Finding_Fantasy]

I definitely meant in real life terms. I have been in an abusive relationship, though not a BDSM one where my ex kicked me when I was down...after he was the one who put me there. So I guess I kind of thake that sort of stuff personally. I probaboy shouldn't but I do.

As for brutality in writing? Well, it doesn't bother me. If it did, I would be a hypocrite. I have quite a fair amount of violence in the stories that I write. For example, the history of one of my characters was beaten, gang raped, then soaked in kerosene and set on fire. With another, her husband had been poisoning her for years until she "betrayed" him and he snapped her neck



So all in all, I don't have a problem with violence as long as it is fiction, if that makes sense. But real violebce, treating someone like dirt. No thanks.

[veru_skjava]

What I was discussing Boccacio was how I tend to dislike brutal violence incorporated with torture.

Now that may make no sense, as most of the "torture" I truely enjoy is down right extreme!!

*blushes* maybe that is a different subject...

Now villians, as in men with men, and angry men with women are another issue all together, though why waste brutality on a woman in a story when she can be tortured?

Giggles...

I have been up toooo long and am not making sense to myself, I should come back to this another time, but wanted to make that comment while it was in my mind.

veru skjava

[Finding_Fantasy]

Torture as we definae it today is not what it once was either. Torture in the medieval era was brutality today. For example, if you spoke out against your King or your God you were branded a heretic. If found guilty, you were put into a heretic's fork. It's a particualrly nasty device that was worn by the convicted. It's a collar that locks around you neck. In the front are two prongs, like a bbq fork, that are thrust up into the person's lower jaw. With this in place, the heretic is no longer able to speak...nor eat or anything else and eventually dies of starvation.

It's funny how soft we have become as humans, isn't it? There is so much which we consider as brutal in our civilized age that was considered normal punishment way back when.

[nikki]

Boccaccio Wrote:
"Do other authors get similar comments? Does anyone ever heed them? Or do you just continue writing in your own way as best you can?"


From the sublime to the ridiculous, i get all sorts of 'advice'...first instinct was to 'obey' (naturally!) but then i started to realise that every person that mailed me wanted something different..some wanted more violence, some less, etc. etc...

now, i go with what feels right for me, and if i get mail that actually inspires me, in that i feel that the suggestions work, i use them, i love to hear what people want, but rarely heed it, if i did, i'd only have a couple of happy readers!

Can i take this opportunity to say that, unfortunately, the best reviews i've ever had come to me via private mail, which is fine, but when a story gets pretty well slated publicly, whilst adored privately, it puts the author in a predicament, i had 2 public reviews of 'Symon and Louise' that suggested i re-write, but more than 10 people privately contacted me to ask that i didn't... what's a girl to do???

nikki

[veru_skjava]

Can i take this opportunity to say that, unfortunately, the best reviews i've ever had come to me via private mail, which is fine, but when a story gets pretty well slated publicly, whilst adored privately, it puts the author in a predicament, i had 2 public reviews of 'Symon and Louise' that suggested i re-write, but more than 10 people privately contacted me to ask that i didn't... what's a girl to do???

Reviewers are very valuable, maybe authors could suggest those that email them register and review?

Just a thought...

veru skjava

[nikki]

ideally, yes.... but many people don't wish to declare publicly that they like what they've read, maybe due to the nature/content of the story, or just plain shy. i would rather have private input than none at all, and half of those who do mail me privately are already registered...maybe the story i refered to was a bad example, as principle character is somewhat young....apparently

nikki

[Finding_Fantasy]

Now, I don't write exotic stories, I just don't have the right knack for them, but I am a writer. I usually go for what the masses suggest, what I mean is, if a whole lot of people suggest the same thing, then perhaps I will take a second look at it.

It is tough being a writer because there are some people who are overly critical. Some are that way because they want to help but others are because they are just plain old cranky...or jealous of your talent All in all I try to take the good with the bad whether it is public or not. Granted not a whole lot have read my stuff because the only place I have it is on my homepage and no one ever writes me from there to tell me how it was *shrugs* Ah well, the few that have replied have been helpful.

Basically, I know I have my own style and way of doing things. Suggestions are always welcomed but that doesn't mean I have to follow them. If I get the same suggestion from various people over and over, I consider it... only if it isn't detrimental to the story.

[Spitman]

I noticed that many stories appearing in the library seem geared more toward wanton violence, mostly toward women, and non-consensual sex. I was wondering a little about this and some of the ramifications of this.

Are some of these stories being written by people that are genuinely angry with women? Or perhaps with a specific woman? Are the stories written by people that have lived these fantasies out and look to do so again? Perhaps they are written to satiate the primal sexual desire before they actually act the fantasy out.

I realise that this is an old thread, but it raised interesting questions that were not fully answered by the responses.

There were periods of my early life when I was totally deprived of female company. There were compensations of a different kind, but a world without women was a bleak, grey world without colour, emotionally unfulfilling. This kind of deprivation did not make me feel angry against women - there were no women to be angry with, and if there had been, there would have been no such deprivation. On returning to what I regarded as civilisation my senses were so bombarded with joyful images in bright technicolour that it seemed I was living every hour and every minute twice over.

A young man, living for weeks on end under such circumstances, having the normal complement of hormones such as testosterone, needs an outlet for the aggression that is normally released through sexual activity. I used to write fantasies of wild, uninhibited and often imaginative aggression where the recipients of all that aggression were attractive young naked women. I did enjoy doing this. I wrote reams of that kind of stuff. However, back in civilisation, my attitude towards women was not aggressive at all in a violent sense. I never had any inclination to be violent to a woman. I see that as a kind of balance, the fantasy discharging pent-up emotions that contrasted with my well mannered and considerate behaviour in real life.

So, far from indicating repressed, or even actively expressed misogyny, the stories may often be the fantasy on the opposite side of the behavioural coin. It is curious that the Gorean saga refers to an alternative world, as it does. By the way he has constructed his scenario, John Norman may be saying exactly the same thing.

[j]

Generally I would say that to write a story as a way to materialize one's fantasies may be good therapy and/or masturbatory practice, but it makes for lousy erotic literature. Good writers use their fantasies, but they also transcend them, use others', deliberately break boundaries (pushing the envelope is part of the literary fun, whereas it breaks the real life one), so that any story which raises questions about the writer's sanity or balance of mind is in itself (IMHO) a bad story.

Some stories do carry a tremendous amount of anger/hatred towards women; I find them frightful, and frightfully boring (Woodburn's stories come to mind). Other stories, quite as horrific in content, but devoid of any perdonal agenda of hatred or contempt, lead me to erotic bliss. Go figure.

[Prodomguy]

Hi Friends,

I find consensual BDSM to be highly erotic. I invite you to check out my story called "Submission in Seattle" and you can judge for yourself.

Take Care,

Prodomguy (listed as author "MB")

[Neopadinski]

I fantasize constantly about breaking into a girl's house, or grabbing her off the street, tying her up and doing lots of things she probably wouldn't like to her. I've actually concocted plans on how to do it. But the only thing I don't consider is whether or not I would actually do it, because under no circumstances would I ever go through with it. If I ever met a rapist, or someone of that nature, I would attack them without a hesitation, with intentions of severely injuring them. Since my mid-teens, I always thought of myself as a hypocrite, because I fantasized about these things but hated the people who actually did them. Then, I came around to realize that it's fine, as long as it's fantasy. I've written only a couple stories where the hanky-panky is consensual, and those were written long ago, when I was first experimenting with sexual stories back when I was 14-15. None of my stories on the library feature consensual sexual acts.

[leo9]

I fantasize constantly about breaking into a girl's house, or grabbing her off the street, tying her up and doing lots of things she probably wouldn't like to her. I've actually concocted plans on how to do it. But the only thing I don't consider is whether or not I would actually do it, because under no circumstances would I ever go through with it.

Find the right girl, and you can do it as a shared fantasy. Last weekend I made arrangements with my new gf before I came to pick her up, and when she got into the car she acted like she was just getting a lift. I held a knife to her throat and told her to hold still and not fight, cuffed her hands behind her back with cuffs that were fastened to a chain behind the seat, then drove her to my place while she alternately begged to be let go and told me I'd never get away with this.

At the house I hung a cloak round her shoulders so I could lead her across the street to the door without anyone seeing her cuffed hands. I realised that if I'd prepared better, since there are so many Muslim women in this neighbourhood, I could have put robes and veil on her and she could have been completely roped and gagged underneath!

Once I had her in the house, I stripped her slowly by cutting her clothes off with the knife I had held her up with (thus settling any doubts she might have had about how sharp it was!) I'd arranged for her to wear stuff from the charity shop box which she could afford to lose; she said afterwards that having her clothes cut off her was the most exciting moment.

When I had inspected my prisoner enough, I tied her down to a chair with a nylon bottle brush under her crotch and let her squirm and beg me to let her off it while I explained that she was here to be broken as my slave, that I expected her to resist and I would enjoy it, but in the end she would belong utterly to me. I spent a long happy afternoon beating and torturing her into grovelling surrender and making her do things she had told me she'd never done and couldn't possibly do, and dropped her back at her place exhausted, bruised all over and glowing with happiness.

Like the old song says, "If you ain't got a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true?"

[longrover]

I'm thinking here, not sure where I'm going .

Thinking about sexual violence (for me) starts with Story of O. It was extremely violent for its time and the first bdsm story I read; I'm sure that's true for many here. Most commentary I've seen and heard of assumes that O was a victim, but she has always been a heroine to me because, like everyone who tries to understand pain and other dark subjects, she was a volunteer. She was an independent professional woman when they were vanishingly rare; her possible suicide never made sense to me. I think it was a sop thrown in to mollify shrinking violets and moralists. Don't let me get started !

I think fictional violence and our reaction to it serves many purposes. Sometimes it's just a phantasy (Texas Chainsaw, Freddy Krueger, ... come to mind although I've never seen them), a Halloween spook. Sometimes there's something else going on (Dirty Harry), sometimes it's a cartoon (Terminator). Sometimes writers and readers use fictional violence to work on something that happened to them or that they're worried about.

We're a violent species that's tried for just over 200 years to convince ourselves that we love peace. That's 200 against millions of years. We are all capable of murder if the right (wrong?) circumstances occur.

Bottom line: Whether people who post here are as sane as anyone else or as whacko as Freddy Krueger, I'd rather have them writing and posting stories than acting out their dreams.

[Curtis]

Excuse me, but what suicide? That's not in my edition. And she couldn't've appeared in the sequel (Return To The Chateau) if she'd died in the first one.

[Riptieron]

I noticed that many stories appearing in the library seem geared more toward wanton violence, mostly toward women, and non-consensual sex. I was wondering a little about this and some of the ramifications of this.

Are some of these stories being written by people that are genuinely angry with women? Or perhaps with a specific woman? Are the stories written by people that have lived these fantasies out and look to do so again? Perhaps they are written to satiate the primal sexual desire before they actually act the fantasy out. Perhaps I am reading way too much into things, but I'm tired and it seemed like a good line of thought at the time.

Are men Angry towards women? Humm- BDSM_Tourguide posted a very good question about the psychology of men, and picked up on a very important detail about a great many of the stories that I have read on this (among other) forums. Snuff stories is another extension of this trend to “dominate” women in the storyline. I posed the question to myself while pondering this and found myself saying, “I want to believe there is a woman that secretly desires this to happen to her- and WANTS this to befall her." My thinking it is ok to be abusive under a certain context makes a role play of my own life’s flawed and seemingly unloved and shunned behavior. Then it occurs to me that this is not just a fantasy but an extension of my need to be accepted as whole, no matter my flaws. *snaps back into reality* I have only to exaggerate this into a fantasy environment and the ensuing rape of a young woman becomes a highly erotic ballet of my inner yearnings for love. Wheh, I need a step ladder to get out of this hole!

-RIP

[Dr Mabeuse]

There's violence and then there's violence. I think there's a definite difference between the symbolic violence practiced in BDSM and actual physical violence against women. For instance, a whipping or spanking can be arousing, but if you get off on hitting women in the face or punching them in the stomach, then I've got to think there's something wrong with you.

Certainly there's pain involved in BDSM, but it's rarely administered in anger. In fact, all the whips and chains and costumes seem to be designed to blunt any signs of anger and keep the violence within certain acceptable bounds. The classic Dom is more or less cold and calculating. He's not a guy who flies into violent rages.

That's not to say that there aren't quite a few hardcore misogynists and even psychopaths who hide behind the BDSM label, but you don't have to be a sadist to enjoy the symbolic passion of BDSM. You don;t even have to be into violence.

---dr.M.

[Ruby]

...You don't even have to be into violence.

---dr.M.

Or pain for that matter.

Yet based on the number of stories with snuff / extreme / heavy and nc story codes, there are certainly a number of folks who enjoy writing and reading about it. I find that many of the stories here can be easily classified as horror.

I asked if perhaps some people were writing stories because they were angry and maybe writing helps them to have a therapeutic release. - TJ

To answer your question - for me, yes. I began writing BDSM vampire themed novels a few years ago when I was having a very tough time with a verbally abusive client. Instead of writing a journal, I used my time to write stories about characters I'd like to see and wicked characters that should be punished. Punishing the wicked can be great fun.

Am I angry? Not anymore. Was I? You bet.
Writing is a great way to explore my own emotions as I experience life through the eyes of my characters.

[ProjectEuropa]

[Are some of these stories being written by people that are genuinely angry with women? Or perhaps with a specific woman?.[/COLOR]

I read around ten stories, then submited four of my own, I think. One where the woman is violent towards a male. One where women hold a male captive and two rather comic stories. I read some more stories posted on the site and thought yipes! I need less story and more sex and violence, especially towards women so I went and wrote a sex and violence one. I had to admit it I found the experience rather cathartic, though the writing not as good or the plot very imaginative. Was it against a specific woman? Hmm At this point in my life I have several who would gladly cut my balls off. I'm betting if I get a review I bet it will be on that one when it is posted.

REVELATION! I have just realised that most of my stories have strong, if not dominant female characters in them! Perhaps that's telling me something! Jesus I hope not as I have been climbing the wrong ladder all my life!

[jaeangel]

I write to let off steam.
Basically, I have issues left from my childhood and adolescence (and even further still) that I'm only just now realizing affects practically everything I do. So a lot of my writing (fanfic, mostly) tends to deal with some of those issues, as if by writing out what happened in a fictional setting helps me come to grips with what happened to me.Some of my readers have noticed a continuing theme of abuse and non-consensual rape in my stories; that's because those things happened, and writing about those events and the aftermath of them, helps me work out some of my own unresolved issues. By having a fictional character deal witht he aftermath of such events, i can find my own closure with what happened to me. It's an odd sort of therapy for me.
And it desn't hurt that my writing style seems to be popular with a lot of people, and the sympathy they feel towards my character(s) feels like it transfers to me. So I get the support and care that I didn't get when I was going through my own ordeals, and it helps. So yes, writing for me is therapy of a sort.

[Alex Bragi]

Are some of these stories being written by people that are genuinely angry with women? Or perhaps with a specific woman?

Maybe, maybe not.

Certainly some people do write for release and/or therapy - that’s why many people like to keep private diaries.

I feel that ‘angry authors’ might be more likely to use their emotion as tool, rather than harbour it as motivation.

Amatuer writers of fiction, particularly, have their egos to feed. We crave attention, for our efforts – it’s just human nature. And, we write because we believe our fantasies are something others will enjoy.

I think, too, in an odd kind of way it gives us a certain feeling of immortality. We hope that long after we are gone, our words will remain, and for a few lucky and talented ones, they actually do.

[tswd45]

I've just posted a story titled 'Karmals' slavery part 1'. I wrote this story specifically at the request of a woman named Karmal. It seems terribly violent to me but she seemed to like it. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I noticed that many stories appearing in the library seem geared more toward wanton violence, mostly toward women, and non-consensual sex. I was wondering a little about this and some of the ramifications of this.

Are some of these stories being written by people that are genuinely angry with women? Or perhaps with a specific woman? Are the stories written by people that have lived these fantasies out and look to do so again? Perhaps they are written to satiate the primal sexual desire before they actually act the fantasy out. Perhaps I am reading way too much into things, but I'm tired and it seemed like a good line of thought at the time.

I consider myself to be very tolerant of others. In fact, I am more tolerant of individuals than I am of cultures. Therefore, I understand that these stories are just stories. Fantasies and musings from minds possibly as twisted and corrupt as my own. So, i refuse to pass judgement on what a person writes. It is, after all, the actiions that speak louder than words.

At any rate, it was a passing musing that I had noticed. I thought, perhaps, that there would be more educational articles and stories than the presence of pure violence.

And don't get me wrong, please. Occasionally, I get in just the right mood for some good, old-fashioned violence. Just not all the time. So, I ask the good people here if they could please try to keep the perspective of the website in mind when contributing their material.

Thanks.

[emma_sub]

i can only respond to this point on a personal level, a submissive female one.

i personally believe that we need to consider intention. There is a difference between receiving violence and receiving pain. Violence is never pleasant to receive, pain can be under certain circumstances. There is also a difference between a Dominant and a sadist, a difference between wanting to be taken and controlled and wanting to be tortured.

If we are looking at ‘power exchange relationships’ then the last word needs attention too. There is undoubtedly a relationship between torturer and victim, but if it is non-consensual violence then it is a very limited relationship.

If the intention of the Dominant is to use pain to increase pleasure or arousal in the submissive then the pain is being used positively for both parties. If the intention is for pleasure or arousal to be gained by only one party i fail to see it as anything other than selfish behaviour lacking in sensitivity. Yes, the best Dominants are sensitive.

There is also the question of there being a difference between fantasy and reality. Surely if one is aroused by the fantasy of extreme violence then it actually must effect the way that one looks upon women (or submissives) in real life too.

Personally i do not believe being a submissive equates with receiving violence.

emma_sub

[longrover]

Emma's points are at the heart of most bdsm discussions and I agree with her. Consent may be within a couple or group, involve a (nonbinding in reality) contract, or rely on another mechanism but it provides the easiest "cover" for arousal in the face of another's pain.

Some nonconsensual stories work for me, though, and there is a category of nonconsensual stories I have not seen discussed.

First the exceptions.

Some stories are set in times and places where the victims' consent could not be an issue. Stories based on historical or hypothetical societies (Roman treatment of slaves and war prisoners; tyrannical governments' treatment of "out groups," spies, etc.; unpleasant future societies) may be painful to read, but their violence is "in bounds" in their settings. Several stories on this site use such designs and I find some of them thought provoking if not arousing.

Some stories are partly nonconsensual (sfmaster's "Janet" stories and the late, great Leviticus' "Valley" stories), but they allow the (usually remote) possibility that society will apprehend the sadistic torturers. Leviticus even brought the FBI into some of his stories (partly) for that purpose. This group shares many features of mystery, thriller, and other mainstream stories.


I have a bigger problem with stories set in societies whose authority to intervene is prevented by authorial design.

The first example is "Her New World," also by Leviticus. An entirely consensual group that wishes to colonize an uninhabited planet has no one with some skills needed to make the trip. They trick a woman who has the skills into accompanying them and then treat her the same as those who consented. (Note: This is not a cheap shot at a dead man. I admire his other work and the site that continues to operate in his name. We had a fairly lenghthy exchange about my reaction on the forum the site had for a while, ending with an agreement to disagree.)

Two other examples are by Crimson Dragon ("Time Out of Time" and "Dawn of Time"). A man learns to operate on two time lines, the "real" line and one where he is the only person able to move around. He brings selected women into "his" time line to bind, whip, etc. although there is little explicit sex and no "rape."

The villains in such storie are beyond even the potential reach of society. The victms have no way out, so their acceptance is merely a defense mechanism. No matter how well written ("Her New World" is up to Leviticus' usual high standards), no matter how much the victims seem to submit happily, such stories are over the line for me.

What do you think?


(Note: sfmaster's "Janet" stories are on this site. Leviticus' stories are on the "Writings of Leviticus" site. Crimson Dragon's stories are on his ASSTR pages.)

[ProjectEuropa]

[QUOTE=longrover]
What do you think?
QUOTE]

I agree with you. The context of the story is of vital importance. If a story is psychopatic then it needs to sit in that context and be acknowledged by the author that s/he is exploring the world of a psychopath. I find nothing arousing or rewarding in a story that is free from moral or social restraint. Characters set free to do whatever they want at will, to me is not a story, it is an author out of control of the craft they are trying to master.

Myself, I find very few stories arousing. I find arousal in the psychology of a story rather than in the depicting of graphic sex. I don't need a depiction of a woman bent over and a man pumping away at her. I want to know the psychology and the motivations that brought the characters to such a point. I want to understand and empathise or be disgusted or provoked by them.

It is quite legitimate for a character to get away free with their crimes (which is what non consensual behaviour is) but I think the reader should be left with a feeling of disgust in them but that requires the author to set moral bounds which is where I came in.

[Alex Bragi]

sub emma,

All I can say in response to your posting is, yes, yes, yes, and I agree completely.

You have an excellent insight on this topic.

Btw, I see you have your private messaging block, were you aware of this?

Some stories are set in times and places where the victims' consent could not be an issue. … Several stories on this site use such designs and I find some of them thought provoking if not arousing.

I read one just the other day. The torturers were not apprehended and it didn’t have a happy ending. I don’t begin to understand the warped and twisted motivation I had to keep reading it. I didn’t ‘enjoy’ it, but it was thought provoking for sure, for hours later I was thinking, “What if…?”

I find nothing arousing or rewarding in a story that is free from moral or social restraint. Characters set free to do whatever they want at will, to me is not a story, it is an author out of control of the craft they are trying to master.

Yes, it’s kind of interesting that people enjoy stories where the characters are "…free from moral or social restraint" and "…set free to do whatever they want at will.." so long as they’re reprimanded, or deal with, before the story ends. We love to hate these characters. We feel a vicarious relief and satisfaction when they get what, we believe, they deserve.

...I find arousal in the psychology of a story rather than in the depicting of graphic sex….

Well, now, here’s a fetish I’m sure none of us has ever heard of before. *gg* Just, kidding! It’s really all a matter of taste, isn’t it? Maybe, I’m a ‘greedy’ reader—I want both when I read erotica. Although, I do understand what you mean. Some of the hottest stories I’ve read, at this site, have been so cleverly subtle sexually that I found myself getting aroused long before the ‘fun’ had even started.