Abortion

[Spitman]

I would not enjoy a story that made fun of abortion, which is too serious an issue for me, but I would not challenge an author's right to express whatever ideas he has in a story.

In a similar way, I have my personal views on abortion, but whatever people think about it, they tend not to be swayed by any argument. My own view is that whatever the justification, to abort a child is exactly like giving the death sentence for a parking offence, but I also accept that there are situations when the interests of the mother should take precedence. What I don't accept is abortions carried out purely for social or economic reasons, and mostly abortion is carried out for what I see as purely selfish reasons.

I don't associate opinions on abortion with those on prostitution, or anything else, but there are groups of people with the same view on a combination of topics. They call the larger ones political parties, and sometimes the smaller ones are called pressure groups.

On prostitution, some good views have been expressed here. If there was a way to decouple prostitution from crime, drugs etc. that is where I would want to go. Prostitution can be and often is a particularly appalling form of slavery in which the prostitute's personal dignity and even her protection from disease are surrendered. Some men will never treat a woman with respect, so I will not pretend that even in an ideal world prostitution is going to be a nice profession, but at least it can be voluntary, and a prostitute can have health care and protection from criminal exploitation.

[bdsmbill]

Originally posted by Spitman
On prostitution, some good views have been expressed here. If there was a way to decouple prostitution from crime, drugs etc. that is where I would want to go. Prostitution can be and often is a particularly appalling form of slavery in which the prostitute's personal dignity and even her protection from disease are surrendered. Some men will never treat a woman with respect, so I will not pretend that even in an ideal world prostitution is going to be a nice profession, but at least it can be voluntary, and a prostitute can have health care and protection from criminal exploitation.

The only way to eliminate the crime/slavery aspects of prostitution is to make it legal, so professional sex workers have the same recourse to help from the authorities that everyone else enjoys.

Bill

[GaryWilcox]

That's one thing I wish they would legalize. But the standards of practice would need to be ridiculously high.

[niyah2]

Being in the medical profession i have seen the results of alot of terrible things. Women beaten to make them have an abortion, women using coat hangers to abort themselves due to no abortion facility available. Abortions with half knowledged people because its cheap and fast. Then the woman shows in the ER with a major infection from the dirty equipment. My view on abortion is irrelevant but i will say it is my body and my choice period.

As for the story writing about abortions and "Lex" having a darkside. Look at Stephen King. He writes horror and has put abortions in His books. How far is to far I don't think there is a limit to a writer's darkness or there should be one. It is from within the writer's mind of imagination and some have a gift for the darker than dark while others have the gift for the lighter and most godly of light. i have a darkside and sometimes i fear writing it for people saying it is to dark or how can someone that nice write something as dark or evil as that. Then i look at other author's out there and i find myself saying well they did it why can't i?

A writer that has no blocks, no walls surrounding what they write is a better writer for it. If we hold back we are cheating ourselves as writers and the readers who sit and wait for our next piece to come out.

As for prositution it should be legal. It would then be safer for everyone concerned. It would also help keep runaways from being sold into slavery or shipped to another country to serve as a sex slave.

We each have our own opinions and these opinions are right to us but they do not have to be right to others.

niyah2

[Alex Bragi]

Hello niyah2,

That's a good response, on all subjects raised on this thread, and certainly much to think about and consider.

And, since I see that it's your first posting, welcome to the family/fourm.

Alex.

[drake7]

Alex, I see things that are offensive to me in stories as well. I realize, as I am sure you do, that each of us has a different view on what is or isn't "over the line."

For some the abortion topic may be exciting. I didn't find it particularly offensive or exciting either one- I did find it very unrealistic however.

My best advice, even on those topics that seem very controversial, is just to skip over it and go on to something more interesting. The atmosphere here on the site is one that encourages freedom of expression and I would hate to think someone was discouraged because of a post here denigrating their particular form of kink.

Drake.

[Morrighan]

I'm amazed that the discussion has managed to remain civilized thus far. The topic of abortion pushes people's buttons in a way that few others do--specifically because it is a question of life and death, and the death of a complete innocent.

I'll chime in with most of the others on the side of freedom of speech, to say if you don't like it, don't read it. I do, however, think that abortion is not snuff, and should be identified as such. To have it spring out at you in something you are reading is a little disquieting.

And something to add--someone mentioned that Stephen King has used abortion in his novels, and I have to say that it's all in how that subject matter is handled. Stephen King makes it a horrible thing, a tool of terror, at least in every book of his I've ever read. This use was different, and if it was intended to be funny...well, it takes a talent above and beyond almost any I can imagine to make the death of an unborn child in any way humorous.

I'm trying very hard not to come down too judgemental. I haven't read the work, and I won't. I will just say that there should be something in either the story codes or the story summary to warn people browsing through the forums. Regardless of when you believe life starts, just as the author has the right to say what he'she likes, the reader has the option to choose what they read.

Morrighan

[castle2001]

Sorry for the delay. This thread seems to go on forever. I guess the battle will go on forever as well.

A pre-viability fetus is not a child, not a person, it's a part of the host organism and removing one is morally no different than removing tonsils or an appendix. Post-viability the situation becomes different. I have no idea which was the case in lex's story.

Not an apt Simile.Tonsils and the appendix are removed only when infected.
Viablilty is now down to the fifth month. Puts the sqweeze on the pro abortion crowd.

[Morrighan]

Curtis, everyone has different beliefs on when "life" starts. My personal opinion is that until we come up with some instrument that measures the "soul" entering the child, then we should err on the side of life. Whether you call it "soul" or "spirit" or whatever else, if you believe that there is some part of you that continues after the body dies, then you should be opposed to abortion. Other than that, the line is too thin. I really believe strongly that abortion is wrong, and it's murder, but the whole argument is based on unprovable beliefs on both sides, which is why there can be no compromise and no argument that will persuade either side. The arguments aren't based on fact; they're based on convenience and religion, which are not quantifiable arguments. You take a lot of both on faith and personal beliefs. Please, let's just leave this lie. The line is straight down the middle and nothing I can say or you can say will change anyone's mind.

Morrighan

[Curtis]

Whether you call it "soul" or "spirit" or whatever else, if you believe that there is some part of you that continues after the body dies, then you should be opposed to abortion. Other than that, the line is too thin.Morrighan

I don't believe that some part of you continues after the body dies. I do believe that the line is very thin.

castle2001: "Not an apt simile. Tonsils and the appendix are removed only when infected." -- That's a good point. Let me try a different simile then. If I can ever get the money together ("fat" chance), I'm going to have liposuction. Morally, I see no difference between me getting five pounds of fat sucked out and a woman getting a 16 week fetus sucked out.

I believe that abortion is the stupidest method of birth control, just as liposuction is the stupidest method of figure control, but I also believe that AS LONG AS THE FETUS IS PRE-VIABILITY, fetish101 is right that it's part of the woman and no one should be able to tell her what she can do with it. Once it's far enough along to survive outside its host, it should have rights of its own, and a legal standing/advocate.

I'm going to thank drake7 for digging out this dead thread and Morrighan for re-aligning it along the deviant path of abortion rights. ("deviant" as in it deviated from Alex's original theme of whether abortion is proper material for stories in the Library.) It'd been so long that I had forgotten that this WASN'T a similar thread that I began at the same time, which WAS on the topic of abortion rights. I'm not sure how prostitution entered into it. Anyway, I apologize to Alex for being the one who, apparently, initiated the hijacking of this thread.