Is it topping from the bottom or orneriness?

[TheDeSade]

I think everyone has hit on a portion of the problem of defining "topping from the bottom." Because there are some many variables in a D/s or BDSM relationship, one all encompassing definition is almost impossible to find. First and foremost I would think that it depends on the roles that the persons in the relationship have defined for themselves. Is it a D/s relationship, Master/slave, Top/Bottom relationship? Within the scope of those definitions, what limits are in play, what relational rules, what parameters on roles have been negotiated? In the end, I think that the definition of "topping from the bottom" is slightly different in every relationship.

In general I would offer that any time a sub or a bottom goes outside the defined and negotiated limits or parameters of his or her role to attempt to maneuver or manipulate the dominant partner in the relationship into performing in a certain way, it is easily defined as "topping from the bottom." Now, it can be done playfully, spitefully or even maliciously. My personal feeling is that when it is done playfully it is almost a normal part of the relationship. Every person has wants, needs, desires and fantasies that they want to see fulfilled It is natural for them to try make this happen. Its natural.

On the other hand, if it is done spitefully or maliciously, it is a dangerous and detrimental act that threatens the D/s or BDSM relationship. It becomes an issue of control and can escalate into and open struggle for dominance in the relationship. I have seen some self confessed subs who do everything in their power to manage and control the entire relationship from the bottom side.

Thats my take on this question. (Kicks his soapbox back under the table)

TDS

[nowgirl]

Because there are some many variables in a D/s or BDSM relationship, one all encompassing definition is almost impossible to find. First and foremost I would think that it depends on the roles that the persons in the relationship have defined for themselves. Is it a D/s relationship, Master/slave, Top/Bottom relationship? Within the scope of those definitions, what limits are in play, what relational rules, what parameters on roles have been negotiated? In the end, I think that the definition of "topping from the bottom" is slightly different in every relationship.TDS

I read something from an article at www.differentequals.com and had saved it a while ago. The title of the article was "topping from the bottom vs. inspiration." It definitely echoes what DeSade states above.

"Is it a Dominant's job to make you submit? - Or to inspire you to submit? Let's flip the concept around: Is it a submissive's job to make someone Dominate? - Or to inspire them to Dominate?

The answer is obvious. But, obvious or not, many people never internalize it. When a submissive "tops from the bottom" the line between "making" and "inspiring" has been crossed - And the reason that stinks has little to do with D/s and much to do with consensuality.

Put the Dominant hat on and it becomes even clearer. If I make someone submit... it's non-consensual.

By contrast, "inspiring" not only confers consent. It also confers pride. And pride has everything to do with D/s.

If you accept that a submissive's duty is to make her Dominant proud - Then you must inspire Her to Dominate.

I quite like this line of reasoning. It seems appropriate to Me that both the Dominant and submissive are bound by a shared rule of conduct. It also seems to articulate the notion that submissives have a duty to inspire."

(i highlited that part...)

Isn't it all about communicating needs, understanding the relationship you have with your partner, sometimes testing those boundaries but ultimately, taking responsibility - and accepting the consequences - for your actions within that relationship?

Everyone has had some great input and it's wonderful to read different perspectives!

[Talia]

Thank you ID and Desade for your imput...

IDCrewDawg Well I feel that since she was attempting to get her partner to Dominate her, even as much as he may wanted to, as a Dominant if he didn't want to, and she had persisted to the point he relented and did as she wanted. It could be seen as topping from the bottom because she controlled the dominant.

I feel topping from the bottom is done with ill intent, the submissive looking to undermine the Dom. If that isn't the intent, then it doesn't fall into the category of topping from the bottom.

What I had intended was something anything....not dominnation, initially....but something to show he still loved me, an I love you back would have been nice but instead he walks away from me. Im on my knees baring my soul to him...open and raw. He walks away

I took the first step to kneel at his feet and tell him I love him.....He walks away.....Did I persist...not at first...I went and cried...for hours...then I approached him...Just asking him why he doesn't love me...he said he did....but just laid on the bed and ignored me. I think that's what pushed me over the top...being ignored.

In general I would offer that any time a sub or a bottom goes outside the defined and negotiated limits or parameters of his or her role to attempt to maneuver or manipulate the dominant partner in the relationship into performing in a certain way, it is easily defined as "topping from the bottom." Now, it can be done playfully, spitefully or even maliciously. My personal feeling is that when it is done playfully it is almost a normal part of the relationship. Every person has wants, needs, desires and fantasies that they want to see fulfilled It is natural for them to try make this happen. Its natural.

TDS

So...are you saying topping from the bottom isn't always negative?

[nowgirl]

What I had intended was something anything....not dominnation, initially....but something to show he still loved me, an I love you back would have been nice but instead he walks away from me. Im on my knees baring my soul to him...open and raw. He walks away

I took the first step to kneel at his feet and tell him I love him.....He walks away.....Did I persist...not at first...I went and cried...for hours...then I approached him...Just asking him why he doesn't love me...he said he did....but just laid on the bed and ignored me. I think that's what pushed me over the top...being ignored.

Ohhh Talia - I didn't realize when you started the post that you were thinking of something specific. I hope you find the answers you're looking for... and a resolution with Him...

take care....

[orchidsoul]

well put, TDS.

[Guest 91108]

...
On the other hand, if it is done spitefully or maliciously, it is a dangerous and detrimental act that threatens the D/s or BDSM relationship. It becomes an issue of control and can escalate into and open struggle for dominance in the relationship. I have seen some self confessed subs who do everything in their power to manage and control the entire relationship from the bottom side.
...
TDS

I think this is where the problem of if it is a good or bad think to top from the bottom really lies.
I have known someone also who wanted to manage and control the entire situation. Didn't work and was very short lived.
I wouldn't consider another such situation even if only online. No way.