Is the Internet making us indifferent?

[Alex Bragi]

Only a few years back scientists found the empathy centre in the brain. Linked to things like psychopathy. What they found our also was that this didn't develop fully in the brain until we're about 21-23. So it should be quite normal for young kids to display psychopathic behaviour.

This is also supported by the fact that 99% of all rapes are carried out by 15-19 year old boys. The statistics vary between reports, but very little.

Young kids need to be closely monitored. A part of being young is doing stupid shit. I never raped anyone but I've done plenty of horrific things in my youth I wouldn't be able to do today. Sure, my situation was pretty extreme. I do think these kids should be punished, but castration? What would that say about our morals? Only a few years back scientists found the empathy centre in the brain. Linked to things like psychopathy. What they found our also was that this didn't develop fully in the brain until we're about 21-23. So it should be quite normal for young kids to display psychopathic behaviour.

This is also supported by the fact that 99% of all rapes are carried out by 15-19 year old boys. The statistics vary between reports, but very little.

Interesting facts for sure, Tom.

Ok, so 99% of rapes are committed by 15 -19 year-olds but do 99% of all 15 -19 year-olds commit rape? Age does not, and can not, mitigate this most heinous of crimes. We're civilised human beings not animals acting on our basic instincts, not matter what age we are.

Let me ask you this: Do you think those snotty noised little bastards would think a little longer and harder about committing rape if they knew getting caught would mean they'd, quite literally, have to pay with their balls?

Young kids need to be closely monitored. A part of being young is doing stupid shit. I never raped anyone but I've done plenty of horrific things in my youth I wouldn't be able to do today. Sure, my situation was pretty extreme. I do think these kids should be punished, but castration? What would that say about our morals?

I think it would say that we consider the morals and well being of majority of our community, who are doing the right thing, to be more important than that of individuals who choose to do the wrong thing in committing this most heinous of crimes. And, that we are prepared to deter potential rapists in the strongest possible way.

However, I don't feel it's a moot point, since it's never going happen--not in my lifetime anyway.

[Ozme52]

Let me ask you this: Do you think those snotty noised little bastards would think a little longer and harder about committing rape if they knew getting caught would mean they'd, quite literally, have to pay with their balls?

I wonder if their parents might have been a little more attentive if their genitals were at risk for their kid's bad behavior.

It's not that I wish to make light of the crime. But maybe we, as a society, need to make Parenting a high-school course.

[Isabelle90]

I wonder if their parents might have been a little more attentive if their genitals were at risk for their kid's bad behavior.

It's not that I wish to make light of the crime. But maybe we, as a society, need to make Parenting a high-school course.

Amen to that!!! The Internet has a plethora of benefits, but if misused can be equally as detrimental. Too many parents expect someone else (or thing such as Internet or video games or television) to look after their kids!!! Why have children if you don't plan to be involved with their lives!?!

How about making laws that require parents to be more responsible for their children's actions????

Oz, I don't know all of the facts in your friends' son's case, so I'm unsure as to how this one in particular would be affected if such laws were passed.....

[Ozme52]

Amen to that!!! The Internet has a plethora of benefits, but if misused can be equally as detrimental. Too many parents expect someone else (or thing such as Internet or video games or television) to look after their kids!!! Why have children if you don't plan to be involved with their lives!?!

How about making laws that require parents to be more responsible for their children's actions????

Oz, I don't know all of the facts in your friends' son's case, so I'm unsure as to how this one in particular would be affected if such laws were passed.....

It would have stopped the bully long ago... It would have made his parents responsible for his actions long before he became so belligerent that he attempted a rape... let alone threatening a repeat... let alone threatening this kid's life. Nothing can be done for an incident out of the blue... but if he hadn't been harangued by the bully's acts and threats, this kid would have been one of the good ones. His mistake was trying to deal with it on his own.

The downside from the kid's perspective is that his parents were separated and maybe if his dad was in the house he would have tried that venue... but he tried to shield his mom from that family and the potential that the bully would come after her too.

[TomOfSweden]

Interesting facts for sure, Tom.

Ok, so 99% of rapes are committed by 15 -19 year-olds but do 99% of all 15 -19 year-olds commit rape? Age does not, and can not, mitigate this most heinous of crimes. We're civilised human beings not animals acting on our basic instincts, not matter what age we are.

I agree that a thing like rape is pretty far off the deep end. But this I'm guessing is a cultural thing. It has to do with what adult behavioiur kids are trying to emulate and how they interpret the background of this behaviour. Adults rarely do what they say.

In Sweden we have to deal with the fact that a distressing majority of all sexual assaults are carried out by young Middle Eastern immigrants and/or children of Middle Eastern immigrants. I think we can be fairly confident that none of their parents incite them or even tell their kids that rape is ok. This is an issue with how cultural values and tacit rules are transferred to our young. There's obviously a cultural mismatch between how the Middle Eastern kids in the Middle Easterners are kept in line and ethnically Middle Eastern kids in Sweden. I have no idea how common rape is in the Middle East, (there are no reliable statistics) but I personally, am pretty confident no culture condones rape and I'd be very surprised if it was high over there.

Here's the question: who's fault is it that these Middle Eastern kids haven't been taught how to behave when in Sweden? Who's fault it is that a young kid hasn't learned acceptable social boundaries? It seems obvious that there's a problem, but is it only their fault? Will castration solve this problem? Of course we should punish them to let them know they've done wrong. I'm not taking away blame from the kids. I'm a strong believer in punishing the one who did the crime and not society. But I've got no illusions about this not being a solution. As far as I'm concerned it's only consolation for the victims.

I don't have a good answer for a quick solution. I'm assuming it'll sort itself out in time. As has always happened when cultures collide. We take the best bits from both, reject the rest and create a new improved amalgam culture. The constant machinery of civilisation building. I think the best/only way to combat it is simply to be publicly horrified, just like you are doing now with this thread. Right now, you and I and everybody else reading this thread is changing our culture. Refining and updating it. Letting people know your strong opinions on the matter in casual conversation.

I'm convinced we can't punish ourselves out of this hole in an instant. By turning to harsher punishments and bringing down the law as hard as we can, all our prior experience, (ie science) tells us that what we'll get is not only simply poor and Middle Eastern people with a severe criminal record marginalising them further, but also perpetuating the behaviour we're trying to solve with the punishment. People just don't react to punishment like we seem to hope they'll do. It may be logical, but it isn't human nature. If we identify with being anti-establishment we'll keep being anti until the time when establishment feels like including us. The worst thing that can happen is that they feel persecuted as a group. Then we can be sure they'll never address it, since that would be tantamount to admitting some kind of racial inferiority.

Let me ask you this: Do you think those snotty noised little bastards would think a little longer and harder about committing rape if they knew getting caught would mean they'd, quite literally, have to pay with their balls?

This old argument. Nobody commits a crime if they think they might get caught. No culture has ever condoned rape. The stigma alone of being outed as a rapist in circles beyond ones closest friends, I'm sure is a lot harsher than any prison sentence or punishment will ever be. Compare it to wife-beating. It's still going strong all over the world, in spite of the stigma attached. Nobody respects a wife beater. Just like nobody ever respects a rapist.

I think it would say that we consider the morals and well being of majority of our community, who are doing the right thing, to be more important than that of individuals who choose to do the wrong thing in committing this most heinous of crimes. And, that we are prepared to deter potential rapists in the strongest possible way.

However, I don't feel it's a moot point, since it's never going happen--not in my lifetime anyway.

I agree we should do what we can to prevent rape. I'm sure we'll all agree that the right not to have sex should be universal. But harsh punishments only seem to work as deterrents against people who wouldn't have done it anyway. As always it's very complicated once we start scraping at the surface.

[tessa]

Interesting facts for sure, Tom.

Ok, so 99% of rapes are committed by 15 -19 year-olds but do 99% of all 15 -19 year-olds commit rape? Age does not, and can not, mitigate this most heinous of crimes. We're civilised human beings not animals acting on our basic instincts, not matter what age we are.

Let me ask you this: Do you think those snotty noised little bastards would think a little longer and harder about committing rape if they knew getting caught would mean they'd, quite literally, have to pay with their balls?

Ok, you asked Tom this, but I hope it's okay if I post a few words in response to your question.

While I am in enthusiastic agreement that the crime committed is indeed an atrocity to be dealt with severely, Tom has nailed the heart of the matter to the wall yet again-- the fact that the frontal lobe in these youths has not yet developed fully does explain why they did what they did. This physiological truth doesn't justify the rape in any way. It only tells us why teens can be so uncivilized at times. After all, the basic instinct portion of the brain does develop first.

On the other hand (or hemisphere, in this case), the frontal lobe is the very last region of the brain to develop, and doesn't do so, as Tom said, until the age of 25, give or take. Like any growth pattern, for some it's a bit sooner, for others, later. (Others, maybe never? That's yet to be determined and is a-whole-nother discussion.) Anyway, since the prefrontal circuit of the frontal lobe is the brain's CEO, as it were, its responsibilities are many. This area manages emotional impulses in socially appropriate ways, including empathetic and altruistic behaviors. It organizes responses to complex problems and searches memory for relevant experience. Hence, its incompleteness in teens allows for an alarming lack of ability to behave properly in most any given social situation.

So to answer your question, no, these snotty nosed little bastards probably wouldn't think a little longer before raping, even if they knew the dire consequences (and especially not with the mob-mentality mindset these three were sporting). They wouldn't because they simply have not developed the ability to do so yet. Oh sure, they'd cry and beg for mercy if handed down a sentence of castration, because the part of the brain that processes that fearful information,the amygdala, develops in early childhood. But telling these yet-to-be-refined-frontal-lobed teens beforehand that castration would be the end result of their behavior wouldn't be much of a deterrent. In fact, most times out of 10, they'd still go ahead with the improper act. It shouldn't make sense, but given the brain information we have, it actually does.

It shouldn't absolve them of the ramifications of said acts, however, despite what a few radicals are trying to propose. It merely points out the great need to keep a close watch on what teens are doing. Even at eighteen, they just aren't ready to be cut loose and left to fend and decide for themselves. At that age, however, they are quite ready to be guided and instructed by competent and caring adults that wants to assist in training that developing brain. Sadly, that's not happening too much. I have my opinions on why that is, but no real answers.

Maybe this indifference to our youth explains why the rape video was viewed 600 times before one lone soul came along to report it. One too many generations of people erroneously believing that because a teen can drive, said youth is ready to face the world and everything in it may just be the answer to this query of yours, Alex. Maybe we aren't so apathetic to the sexual violence we come across. Maybe it's that we're a bit too indifferent (or too busy or too distracted or too unconcerned...too uninformed, perhaps?) to the developing needs of the youth in our lives, and we're allowing them to go out into the big, bad world before they're ready, despite what teens believe and what adults want to conveniently think?

Maybe. It's just a thought.

[TomOfSweden]

Maybe it's that we're a bit too indifferent (or too busy or too distracted or too unconcerned...too uninformed, perhaps?) to the developing needs of the youth in our lives, and we're allowing them to go out into the big, bad world before they're ready, despite what teens believe and what adults want to conveniently think?

Maybe. It's just a thought.

Thanks for this informed back up. Who's ever ready for life? Every time I think I'm on top of things, it hits me in the face I pay my bills. It's a humble goal in life.

[tessa]

Thanks for this informed back up.

You don't need any back up ever, but thanks for saying it was informed.