What makes you submissive?

[Sir_Russell]

Tom since it has been my personal experience too. I understand how stats can be made to work for any position you wish to state. But life my friend isn't stats it real people and real actions.

When most of the women you have been with in your Life admit to being assualted and not groping but as painful frightening act or acts done on and too them. Your stance is that we are what we are because we are, well I agree some with that statement.

Problem is that we are also a composite of our experiences. Now I am a very different rare form of Dominant so that may also alter the types of women that are drawn to me. I deal a lot with their mind helping them to see that they are very special worthwhile people, I spend as much time helping them find and understand their strength, self cofindence as I do anything.

The only way to know for sure would be to get honest answers from all the submissives out there and that is impossible. So I answer with my experience is yes most submissive have been abused either mentally or sexually.

[TomOfSweden]

Tom since it has been my personal experience too. I understand how stats can be made to work for any position you wish to state. But life my friend isn't stats it real people and real actions.

When most of the women you have been with in your Life admit to being assualted and not groping but as painful frightening act or acts done on and too them. Your stance is that we are what we are because we are, well I agree some with that statement.

Problem is that we are also a composite of our experiences. Now I am a very different rare form of Dominant so that may also alter the types of women that are drawn to me. I deal a lot with their mind helping them to see that they are very special worthwhile people, I spend as much time helping them find and understand their strength, self cofindence as I do anything.

The only way to know for sure would be to get honest answers from all the submissives out there and that is impossible. So I answer with my experience is yes most submissive have been abused either mentally or sexually.

I realize that I may can have come across quite a bit as rooting for Team Nature, (ie nature vs nurture). That wasn't my goal. I was reacting to how nature got lost completely in the formulation of the thread, and made as strong case as I could for nature.

Mastersgem formulated herself as if our sexual identity is based entirely on our childhood. I'd say that the fields of psychology and neurology has developed quite a lot beyond Freud today.

It's probably somewhere in between. Isn't it always? But I think it would be far too simple to only to look at childhood and see how that effected us later in life.

I do also acknowledge that I'm no psychologist or neurologist, so I'm not in a position of putting my foot down about anything. So I won't. But I can tell you my families background and supply my interpretation.

As a kid I was abused to the point where I found it necessary to run away from home, (at 16) to prevent anybody getting killed. Either me or my father. I would have run away earlier if I had anywhere to go. If abuse makes us submissive I should be submissive right?

My father was very dominant. My mother was very submissive. I later in life found out the my father had had a virtually identical relationship with his father which led to him, just as me, running away from home when he was 18. The only difference is that his father, (my grandfather) died quite soon after my fathers disappearance.

In my early relationships I was just as dominant and just as abusive as my father had been. So here we have it. Three generations with bad communication skills who without knowing anything about the generation before copied their behavior in detail. The correlations are uncanny.

But it could still be nurture. Abuse perpetuating itself. But the exact same behaviour could be used as evidence for nature. The instinct to dominate at any cost. I remember feeling extreme frustration when my early girlfriends didn't do what I told them to. For no reason other than some base animal instinct growling in the back of my head.

When I speak to my mother it doesn't take much to realize that she's naturally incredibly submissive. And it's not out of fear of my father. She's had a history of clinging to very domineering characters. Her mother, was also super submissive. Long after her extremely dominant husband died, (this is my grandfather on my mothers side) she was extremely happy when anybody came over so she'd have somebody to take care of. She'd do everything for me. She was also a radical militant feminist and communist in a extremely well off family. She was a powerful person with a powerful mind and will. She was quite an impressive person. But still super submissive.

I can go even further back in our family. It's a long list of extremely dominant men and extremely submissive women on both sides of the family. Sometimes abusive relationships, (like with my father) or not (as my mothers mothers).

Nature for me is by far the simplest explanation. If bee-brains can be programmed to perform and understand extremely complex dances that map out where nectar can be found far away, and navigating by the sun... Then our brains can surely contain even more detailed behavioral social pre-programming.

Why would our brains be so much more different than the animals we evolved from? Why would our brains make a massive leap in functionality, when nothing else in evolution does? The nurture crowd doesn't have a good answer. The days when we believed God created us with free will is gone. That simple explanation doesn't fly anymore.

Behaviorists/Nurture crowd have a lot bigger and complicated problems to solve than the nature crowd. They have to explain where all the primate instincts went! Where did all those activities we can observe in chimpanzees go? All those alpha-and beta-male behaviours. All those submissive chimpanzee female behavours? Did they all just evaporate through the process of evolution? Maybe? Maybe they did? But it's a very bold statement.

I also realize that it would be idiotic to assume that something like a rubber fetish or love of high heels could be genetic. This is a very complicated issue. Probably the most complex scientific issue today. How the brain works. I don't think we'll have an answer for another 50 years. I think it would be wrong to draw any definite conclusions where our kinks and sexual behaviours come from. It is still extremely premature.

At best I can say. "This is who I am, and I'm accepting me as I am now. Never mind why."

[gemmy]

...As a kid I was abused to the point where I found it necessary to run away from home, (at 16) to prevent anybody getting killed. Either me or my father. I would have run away earlier if I had anywhere to go. If abuse makes us submissive I should be submissive right?

My father was very dominant. My mother was very submissive. I later in life found out the my father had had a virtually identical relationship with his father which led to him, just as me, running away from home when he was 18. The only difference is that his father, (my grandfather) died quite soon after my fathers disappearance.

In my early relationships I was just as dominant and just as abusive as my father had been. So here we have it. Three generations with bad communication skills who without knowing anything about the generation before copied their behavior in detail. The correlations are uncanny...

and you relate none of your dominance to this then? patterned abuse leading and breading a cycle of the same?

just a question Tom, i'm not at all doubting your thoughts on this topic as you lent much for everyone to think and process - it just sort of jumped out at me when you said it happened to your father and his father before him

[TomOfSweden]

and you relate none of your dominance to this then? patterned abuse leading and breading a cycle of the same?

I'm not denying the possibility.

just a question Tom, i'm not at all doubting your thoughts on this topic as you lent much for everyone to think and process - it just sort of jumped out at me when you said it happened to your father and his father before him

I was 29 when I found these things out, and I was not prepared for it at all. It feels like I'm still not. It's too bizarre of a string of events.

[Isabella King]

Just a quick point...could you clarify what or who you are calling dumb, Slave Eswn? I'm beginning to feel the flexing of claws