Acceptable or No?

[Flaming_Redhead]

If safewords exist, they must be honored without consequences, else they're meaningless and an inherent trust has been violated.

I agree, but we don't know in what context the safe word existed. If this was a no limits relationship, the safe word may have only existed for the sake of new types of play in which they were both inexperienced.

Also, even in a "no limits" relationship, there are implied limits.

This is true. Usually, the reason for having no limits is that the couple know each other sufficiently well to trust that they have the same basic limits and, therefore, no limits will ever be breached.

I'd have to know the details of the command to determine if I thought the command itself violated those.

Maybe she was commanded to get him something to drink, and she had just painted her toenails.

A caveat to this would be the type of safeword -- I use two: one that means "stop now, too far or something's wrong" and another that's a request to stop or lighten the intensity. I may accept the latter or not at my discretion.

Do you allow them to be used to get out of punishment? You brought up a good point, though. Maybe after 2 swats, she used the "yellow" safe word, and he determined that she could take some more without any permanent damage.

[Ragoczy]

I agree, but we don't know in what context the safe word existed. If this was a no limits relationship, the safe word may have only existed for the sake of new types of play in which they were both inexperienced.

That's true, and the problem with hypotheticals, the discussion has to be in generalities. So, in general, I assume safewords apply at all times.

This is true. Usually, the reason for having no limits is that the couple know each other sufficiently well to trust that they have the same basic limits and, therefore, no limits will ever be breached.

I guess one of the problems is that I view safewords as a communications tool that's valuable regardless of how well I think I know someone. It's not just about limits, it's about things going wrong.

Maybe she was commanded to get him something to drink, and she had just painted her toenails.

Well, the trust goes both ways -- that the safeword will be honored, but also that it won't be used frivolously. And that's something for the two to discuss after the safeword's been honored -- "I just painted my toenails and don't want to have to redo them", frivolous; "I just painted my toenails and it'll get on the new carpet", not so much.

Do you allow them to be used to get out of punishment? You brought up a good point, though. Maybe after 2 swats, she used the "yellow" safe word, and he determined that she could take some more without any permanent damage.

Not to "get out of", but to halt/delay/discuss if there's some serious problem, yes.

The second part of your question goes to the caveat I added. Obviously if it's within the dominant's agreed discretion to ignore a type of safeword, then it's an acceptable scenario.

[Flaming_Redhead]

That's true, and the problem with hypotheticals, the discussion has to be in generalities. So, in general, I assume safewords apply at all times.

You're absolutely right. We can presume all manner of things since there's not much information. I thought it would be interesting to suppose different things and see if people's opinions change. Obviously, yours didn't.

I guess one of the problems is that I view safewords as a communications tool that's valuable regardless of how well I think I know someone. It's not just about limits, it's about things going wrong.

That's a good point.

Well, the trust goes both ways -- that the safeword will be honored, but also that it won't be used frivolously. And that's something for the two to discuss after the safeword's been honored -- "I just painted my toenails and don't want to have to redo them", frivolous; "I just painted my toenails and it'll get on the new carpet", not so much.

Hmmm....I can't imagine using a safe word frivolously because that's akin to crying wolf, but then again, I've been known not to use mine out of sheer stubbornness.

Not to "get out of", but to halt/delay/discuss if there's some serious problem, yes.

The second part of your question goes to the caveat I added. Obviously if it's within the dominant's agreed discretion to ignore a type of safeword, then it's an acceptable scenario.

Really? I've never used a safe word during punishment. In fact, the thought never even crossed my mind. That's not to say I don't protest, whine, beg, plead, or try to squirm away. If it works, fine. If it doesn't....even better! *ggls*

I think the majority of people use the traffic light signal to denote varying degrees of "stop" with "yellow" usually meaning "slow down, proceed with caution" and not necessarily "STOP," so I can see where ignoring it might be acceptable.

[Ragoczy]

You're absolutely right. We can presume all manner of things since there's not much information. I thought it would be interesting to suppose different things and see if people's opinions change. Obviously, yours didn't.

That's because I'm stubborn and pig-headed.

Really? I've never used a safe word during punishment. In fact, the thought never even crossed my mind. That's not to say I don't protest, whine, beg, plead, or try to squirm away. If it works, fine. If it doesn't....even better! *ggls*

I think the majority of people use the traffic light signal to denote varying degrees of "stop" with "yellow" usually meaning "slow down, proceed with caution" and not necessarily "STOP," so I can see where ignoring it might be acceptable.

So let's paint a hypothetical. Punishment's assessed, let's say a good caning. Thing's progress and it was a serious infraction, so it's really painful. There's a lot of screaming and crying. Now something goes wrong; say there's some thrashing and pulling and a cuff gets just the right angle to damage something in the hand.

In all of this, I want a word. One word that isn't part of the screaming and crying that'll spring to the front of the girl's mind as the way to tell me something's seriously wrong and that will cut right through to me to let me know there's something wrong.

I won't react to "Ow, ow, ow!", I'm expecting that. I may not immediately hear "My hand hurts!", but a part of me is listening for that safeword all the time and tuned to immediately protect when I hear it.

[Flaming_Redhead]

So let's paint a hypothetical. Punishment's assessed, let's say a good caning. Thing's progress and it was a serious infraction, so it's really painful. There's a lot of screaming and crying. Now something goes wrong; say there's some thrashing and pulling and a cuff gets just the right angle to damage something in the hand.

In all of this, I want a word. One word that isn't part of the screaming and crying that'll spring to the front of the girl's mind as the way to tell me something's seriously wrong and that will cut right through to me to let me know there's something wrong.

I won't react to "Ow, ow, ow!", I'm expecting that. I may not immediately hear "My hand hurts!", but a part of me is listening for that safeword all the time and tuned to immediately protect when I hear it.

Okie dokie, artichokie! I can honestly say nothing like that has ever happened to me, but there's a first time for everything. My punishments usually sound more like "But, Daddy, I forgot..." (please don't spank me) and "No, Daddy, PLEASE..." (ow ow ow). *ggls* I'm pretty sure if Daddy heard me scream "RED" instead of "DAMMIT," he'd stop.

[tessa]

So let's paint a hypothetical. Punishment's assessed, let's say a good caning. Thing's progress and it was a serious infraction, so it's really painful. There's a lot of screaming and crying. Now something goes wrong; say there's some thrashing and pulling and a cuff gets just the right angle to damage something in the hand.

In all of this, I want a word. One word that isn't part of the screaming and crying that'll spring to the front of the girl's mind as the way to tell me something's seriously wrong and that will cut right through to me to let me know there's something wrong.

I won't react to "Ow, ow, ow!", I'm expecting that. I may not immediately hear "My hand hurts!", but a part of me is listening for that safeword all the time and tuned to immediately protect when I hear it.

Very well said. Thank you.