american empire

[Matin]

i think they're speaking chinese, and japanese, and french, and german.. russian even.

how much of america can be purchased out from underneath us before it's no longer ours. there's more than one way to wage war.

i have often marveled at how it seems that every other country in the world has import/export tariffs and laws in place that hinder foreigners from coming in and undercutting vital industries. basically in japan any cheaper american product exported to them will sell in their country for an equal or greater price.

this bothers me because america handles this badly in my eyes.

thoughts?

oh and thanks for resurrecting my thread, y'all

[Thorne]

this bothers me because america handles this badly in my eyes.

thoughts?

My only thought, one which I've had often in the past and which still seems relevant today, is that someone is making a good bit of money over this country's lack of matching tarriffs. Whether politicians or industry big-wigs (or both, which is most likely) these kinds of "mistakes" are unlikely unless someone is profiting from it.

And, as usual, the American people are fed a lot of lies and half-truths, and if they begin to see the real truth they are diverted by another scandal, or by the specter of terrorism, or by a "tax rebate".

Our focus has been whittled down to the two minute blurbs on the so-called TV news shows, and pointed at the all-important decision of which brain-dead, untalented freak is going to win American Idol. How far are we from the point where we no longer have any choice in what we do for entertainment? Mandatory watching of the TV monitors, which have become ubiquitous in our society, is just around the corner. Orwell was only off by about 30 years.

[js207]

i think they're speaking chinese, and japanese, and french, and german.. russian even.

how much of america can be purchased out from underneath us before it's no longer ours. there's more than one way to wage war.

i have often marveled at how it seems that every other country in the world has import/export tariffs and laws in place that hinder foreigners from coming in and undercutting vital industries. basically in japan any cheaper american product exported to them will sell in their country for an equal or greater price.

The US has them as well - strict nationality restrictions on airline ownership, ban on using some imported metals on defense contracts (notably titanium, IIRC; I seem to remember that being a problem for Boeing recently) - and just this week I saw the French complaining about the 300% import tax on Roquefort cheese (and various other products of theirs, but the Roquefort tax was the highest and the one they complained about the most).

Indeed, a quick look at the subject will turn up dozens of cases of America imposing these restrictions: Canadian lumber, European cheese, Asian and South American shrimp, Canadian wheat, all foreign steel... Then there are all the agricultural and other subsidies: cotton, sugar, corn, the big tax breaks to Boeing (just as Europe gives them to Airbus)...

[Matin]

The US has them as well - strict nationality restrictions on airline ownership, ban on using some imported metals on defense contracts (notably titanium, IIRC; I seem to remember that being a problem for Boeing recently) - and just this week I saw the French complaining about the 300% import tax on Roquefort cheese (and various other products of theirs, but the Roquefort tax was the highest and the one they complained about the most).

Indeed, a quick look at the subject will turn up dozens of cases of America imposing these restrictions: Canadian lumber, European cheese, Asian and South American shrimp, Canadian wheat, all foreign steel... Then there are all the agricultural and other subsidies: cotton, sugar, corn, the big tax breaks to Boeing (just as Europe gives them to Airbus)...

you're right of course, but then there are the ones that confuse the hell out of me. biggest example cars. it's all doom and gloom because they undercut us to hell and gone, but the restrictions aren't there to prevent it.

i love my toyota, seriously the only way to make me buy a ford is to make the toyota unavailable, or otherwise unattractive.

and now something else. anyone here a michael crighton fan? just reread rising sun and that's what promted my initial comment on eco-warfare.

[Carpe Coma]

you're right of course, but then there are the ones that confuse the hell out of me. biggest example cars. it's all doom and gloom because they undercut us to hell and gone, but the restrictions aren't there to prevent it.

There were restrictions. From the early 1980s to 1994, Japan had a "voluntary export restriction" on their autos (it was "voluntary" in order to not violate GATT). This was begged for by the big three so they could get their act together when japanese autos took off in the U.S. due to the oil crisis of the 70s. The big three have had 20+ years to catch up. My pity has long since expired.

[js207]

you're right of course, but then there are the ones that confuse the hell out of me. biggest example cars. it's all doom and gloom because they undercut us to hell and gone, but the restrictions aren't there to prevent it.

i love my toyota, seriously the only way to make me buy a ford is to make the toyota unavailable, or otherwise unattractive.

Where do you think that Toyota is made? Their Alabama plant? Or maybe the Kentucky one, or Indiana, or Texas, or West Virginia. It can't have been made in the Mississippi plant yet, but if you buy another Toyota in a couple of years it could be. Buying Toyota does not mean buying a car made overseas - just that you're buying one not grown in a cocoon of UAW red tape.

[leo9]

Buying Toyota does not mean buying a car made overseas - just that you're buying one not grown in a cocoon of UAW red tape.

And there I always imagined that the Big Three's failure to design cars for any time later than 1980 (even when it meant creating a brand new class of vehicle to get round fuel efficiency laws) was down to management. I had no idea the unions were so powerful.

[js207]

And there I always imagined that the Big Three's failure to design cars for any time later than 1980 (even when it meant creating a brand new class of vehicle to get round fuel efficiency laws) was down to management. I had no idea the unions were so powerful.

If you mean SUVs, that "creating a brand new class of vehicle" was one of their few successes, actually making an effort to build cars they could still sell for a profit, even with the inflated per-unit costs imposed in part by the UAW. Building the smaller, cheaper, more fuel-efficient cars you might prefer them to build was economically a non-starter - but the higher margins on SUVs made them viable, indeed the lifeline which kept the Big Three going until very recently. For that matter, you'll find the foreign manufacturers make them too - not because they're in on the evil conspiracy to use mind-control rays to make people endure those big luxury vehicles they don't really want, but because they were what people did want.

As for powerful - yes, of course the UAW have a chokehold on the Big Three. How many non-union plants do they have in the US? Do you have any idea just how much it controls them, down to being able to block plant closures, shift changes and personnel decisions? It's a miracle they've survived this long.

[leo9]

Building the smaller, cheaper, more fuel-efficient cars you might prefer them to build was economically a non-starter

So why did people keep buying them, in the face of everything the advertisers could do to convince them that it was still 1950 and mileage didn't matter?

but the higher margins on SUVs made them viable, indeed the lifeline which kept the Big Three going until very recently.

Those higher margins were only there because, by pretending they were pickup trucks, SUVs could dodge the mandatory fuel efficiency rules. The only reason the class was created was so they could go on sticking big low-comression engines into them.

For that matter, you'll find the foreign manufacturers make them too - not because they're in on the evil conspiracy to use mind-control rays to make people endure those big luxury vehicles they don't really want, but because they were what people did want.

So if nobody really wanted those little fuel-efficient cars, why are the companies that made them surviving, while the companies that didn't, are waiting with their tin bowls in the Government free money line? Is the AUW some kind of eco-terrorist front that only targeted SUV makers?