Do people 'deserve' universal health care?

[steelish]

If people don't agree to the governmental way of doing it it's unlikely that universal healthcare would get enough public support to be accepted as law in the first place.

Therein lies the problem. Over 65% (a majority) of the American citizens are AGAINST the health care bill, yet our government is still moving forward with trying to pass it. They are not listening to their citizens. Even though, in America, the politicians WORK FOR US, they act as if we are not part of the equation.

What could be seen as strange from an european point of view is that the US choose to use more then half it's tax money on an army, instead of on it's own citizens in the form of a welfare state..
But again, that is your choice.

Because that is one of the roles of our government. Providing for it's citizens in the form of a service is NOT the role of our government. Europeans call it a welfare state, most Americans view is as a NANNY state. America was formed on a "can-do" attitude, not a "what can you do for me" attitude. It is not the role of our government to "take care of us" and be providers. When our government concentrated on it's role and allowed the free market to work, we became the strongest, richest nation on earth. But a nanny...oops, sorry, welfare state type of nation (Europe) is your choice to live in.

Think of it this way, if that healthcare bill passes, and Obama cuts spending to NASA, and cuts spending to our self defense, eventually America will no longer be able to run to the rescue during natural disasters and when other nations call for help.

But I know one thing, I'd never want to actually live in your country for long enough to allow my own nations healthcare to stop apply to me, despite enjoying visiting the US..
(our national insurance only apply to a few american hospitals)

Okey dokey!

[SadisticNature]

Because that is one of the roles of our government. Providing for it's citizens in the form of a service is NOT the role of our government. Europeans call it a welfare state, most Americans view is as a NANNY state. America was formed on a "can-do" attitude, not a "what can you do for me" attitude. It is not the role of our government to "take care of us" and be providers. When our government concentrated on it's role and allowed the free market to work, we became the strongest, richest nation on earth. But a nanny...oops, sorry, welfare state type of nation (Europe) is your choice to live in.

If this were actually the problem, it wouldn't be the 'welfare' state type of nations that are catching up to the US. What actually happened is there were this thing called World War II and during this event there were big planes called bombers, that dropped things called bombs on places called factories where stuff is made. Not only were lots and lots of people killed, but the European and Asian economies were ravaged. In America, the factories were untouched and most of the war casualties were soldiers rather than civilians. The labor force expanded and the economy was strong. As a result America was the dominant market force for the 50's,60's and 70's while the rest of the world rebuilt and recovered. Even in the 70's and 80's the rest of the world was catching up with many countries experiencing much faster GDP growth than the US. In the 90's it was much the same. Now, the economy is seeing the consequences of other countries growing their economies faster for a period of 40 years.

Also, during the heyday of the United States, the top tax bracket paid over 67% taxes, now that number is well under 50%. So if you believe that was the heyday of the free market you shouldn't accuse the government of market interference for trying to raise taxes on the rich.

[steelish]

If this were actually the problem, it wouldn't be the 'welfare' state type of nations that are catching up to the US. What actually happened is there were this thing called World War II and during this event there were big planes called bombers, that dropped things called bombs on places called factories where stuff is made. Not only were lots and lots of people killed, but the European and Asian economies were ravaged. In America, the factories were untouched and most of the war casualties were soldiers rather than civilians. The labor force expanded and the economy was strong. As a result America was the dominant market force for the 50's,60's and 70's while the rest of the world rebuilt and recovered. Even in the 70's and 80's the rest of the world was catching up with many countries experiencing much faster GDP growth than the US. In the 90's it was much the same. Now, the economy is seeing the consequences of other countries growing their economies faster for a period of 40 years.

Also, during the heyday of the United States, the top tax bracket paid over 67% taxes, now that number is well under 50%. So if you believe that was the heyday of the free market you shouldn't accuse the government of market interference for trying to raise taxes on the rich.

America's rise to world power began long before WWII!

As for your information on taxes, I would love to see your sources on those figures. Feel free to provide them.

As to a rebuttal, I will return at a later time for that. Right now I am so offended by the tone you took with me it is taking every bit of will power I possess not to take the same snide condescending tone with you. Good day to you.

[SadisticNature]

Please feel free to elaborate on when you feel America was a world power and support it with facts/arguments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States

Note: Section 3.1 history of top US tax rates.

From 1932 to 1981 the tax rate was 67% or higher for the top bracket.

Likewise for 1917-1921.

The only periods with tax rates lower than present were:

Pre-1913 (no federal income taxes),1925-1931 and 1988-1992.

Before 1913 the US was not a major international power, and from 1925-1931 you see the fiscal policies that shaped the great depression in action.

In 1988-1992 you have a brief dip below present day rates, that lead to a soaring national deficit which was brought under control by Clinton before again spiraling out of control under Bush (and likely getting even worse under Obama).

[SadisticNature]

As for the tone some of your tones have been similarly offensive.

You take specific opinion positions and trumpet them as if anyone who disagrees you has no understanding of the world. I responded with that tone because I felt talked down to. I don't believe I initiated it.

[steelish]

As for the tone some of your tones have been similarly offensive.

You take specific opinion positions and trumpet them as if anyone who disagrees you has no understanding of the world. I responded with that tone because I felt talked down to. I don't believe I initiated it.

Ah. So you feel I've treated you so stupidly that I felt the need to explain what a bomb or a plane was?

As to specific opinion positions...of course I do! So do you. I would expect that. I don't feel you have no understanding of the world. What I think is you have no understanding of how most Americans feel right now. You don't live here. As far as I know you didn't grow up American and move out of the States. Feel free to state your opinion. I feel free to state mine. I can disregard yours if I wish, just as you can disregard mine as you wish.

What I took offense to was the way you wrote directly to me as if I were 3 years old. I don't recall EVER doing that in a post to you. If I did, please point it out to me.

"and during this event there were big planes called bombers, that dropped things called bombs on places called factories where stuff is made"

I really don't recall ever taking that tone with you.