Religion and M/s relasionship

[13'sbadkitty]

While not nearly as devastating as your addictions, I had tried for years to give up smoking. Nothing worked until I finally, in my own mind, decided that I HAD to give up smoking. No science, no gods, no magic powders. Just me deciding it was time.
Regardless of how you think you did it, I give all the credit to you. YOU decided you had to stop. YOU decided to change. YOU made that change happen. Don't sell yourself short. Don't give credit where it isn't due. Regardless of the paths you traveled, it was YOU who reached the peace of mind, whether through prayer or meditation, to make yourself change. I congratulate YOU for every bit of it.

while I appreciate your congrats, I believe the type of addict I am is of the hopeless variety. Meaning will power has nothing to do with it, i am completely beyond choice. The book alcoholics anonymous would explain way better than i ever could. the first 164 pages are the most relevant for what I am speaking of. It doesn't take away from my life, it adds to it. I am not of the belief system included in contemporary judeo/christian practices. I am more a pagan i guess they would describe me as. i check other on medical forms. i am honestly enjoying having a relationship with God. It isn't something that detracts from my accomplishments or responsibilties...it augments them.

[Thorne]

i am honestly enjoying having a relationship with God. It isn't something that detracts from my accomplishments or responsibilties...it augments them.

There's little I can say to argue against such things. For my own part, I don't see the benefit for believing in a supernatural being with no evidence and which cannot be shown to actually have any tangible effects in the real world. I see it as all being within you, and me. Perhaps the AA book was able to help you realize your potential, bring clarity to you and allow you to take back control. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, so I can't say one way or the other. I feel that we need to take responsibility not only for our own failings but for our own accomplishments in overcoming those failings.

Believing that your addiction is hopeless is giving in, denying your own responsibility. True, it could be a real, physical weakness, one which can be treated with medicines. Or it could be an emotional problem, which you have to take responsibility for. Either way, I don't see any gods making the way easier.

[sm8591]

Strange discussion on a BDSM forum. Religion has historically been one of the most effective weapons to impose power over people, make them believe blindly and you own them... Most wars mankind ever had were driven by religion and also today we see e new phenomenon: terrorism motivated by... yes religion. It proves how easy it is to make people believe almost whatever one clever Dom wants. Personally I understand the universe very well, I can live with the unanswered questions of physics and see no need to believe in any fairy tails. Any problem I encounter in live, I solve with my own thinking. For me it is a mystery why people can get religious. Political leaders need religion to brainwash people in order to rule them, they have a good practical reason to pretend as if they believe... but ordinary people? May be people hate to think and prefer therefore to believe?

[brwneydgirl]

but ordinary people? May be people hate to think and prefer therefore to believe?

I can do both (think and believe). Seems logical to me. Faith brings comfort and peace to my mind. I am an intelligent, thoughtful woman. I also believe in God. And as for tangible proof, I look no further than my children. Argue all you want.

[13'sbadkitty]

I can do both (think and believe). Seems logical to me. Faith brings comfort and peace to my mind. I am an intelligent, thoughtful woman. I also believe in God. And as for tangible proof, I look no further than my children. Argue all you want.

very well said, thank you...

Thorne, while i do believe that addiction is a disease I do believe it is a threefold disease. Science can treat the physical, people can treat the mental. God only can deal with the spiritual. I see miracles daily. I see them everywhere. If you don't see them, ok. I believe you can have a life as fulfilling as one who has a belief in some form of higher power. no argument there. i just believe that for me i needed something more. who cares if i am crazy? I am not on heroin anymore for years now and i am not breaking into your house, so we both can be happy with that.

[Thorne]

God only can deal with the spiritual.

That assumes that there is some kind of spiritual, or supernatural, aspect to our lives. I don't see that.

I see miracles daily. I see them everywhere. If you don't see them, ok.

I see the same things you see, but I don't see them as miracles. I have this urge, this need, to look BEHIND the curtain, and see what's really going on. Assuming something is a miracle just because it feels good doesn't work. How can you then determine whether or not something which feels bad is or is not a miracle? When a plane crashes and one person survives, people are quick to claim a miracle. But what about the 100 or more people who died? Where was their miracle? If one of those who died were from your family, would you still see it as a miracle that one person survived? No, miracles are only ordinary occurrences which haven't yet been explained. Nothing supernatural about them.

I believe you can have a life as fulfilling as one who has a belief in some form of higher power. no argument there.

Well, that puts you miles ahead of the Pope, at least. He recently equated atheists with Nazis. And most fundamentalists believe that we atheists are inherently evil, since we don't have the same moral center as they do.

who cares if i am crazy? I am not on heroin anymore for years now and i am not breaking into your house, so we both can be happy with that.

No one says you're crazy! I just believe that you would be far better off if you could recognize your own self-worth without resorting to the supernatural. As I said, you've come a long way, and I give you full credit for every painful step.

[CuddleDom]

I see the same things you see, but I don't see them as miracles. I have this urge, this need, to look BEHIND the curtain, and see what's really going on. Assuming something is a miracle just because it feels good doesn't work. How can you then determine whether or not something which feels bad is or is not a miracle? When a plane crashes and one person survives, people are quick to claim a miracle. But what about the 100 or more people who died? Where was their miracle? If one of those who died were from your family, would you still see it as a miracle that one person survived? No, miracles are only ordinary occurrences which haven't yet been explained. Nothing supernatural about them.

It is not lack of understand that makes something a miracle nor it needing to be supernatural. It is the difference in perspective at seeing a statistical inevitability. If you just go wow that was odd then it's not a miracle. It is when you are filled with awe and gratitude that makes it a miracle. When you (or someone you care about) is that one in million survivor, it is that feeling of gratitude not focused on a person that makes it turn toward the spiritual. Thus even after knowing the scientific explanation the feeling does not subside, that is what it a miracle.

[13'sbadkitty]

That assumes that there is some kind of spiritual, or supernatural, aspect to our lives. I don't see that.

I see the same things you see, but I don't see them as miracles. I have this urge, this need, to look BEHIND the curtain, and see what's really going on. Assuming something is a miracle just because it feels good doesn't work. How can you then determine whether or not something which feels bad is or is not a miracle? When a plane crashes and one person survives, people are quick to claim a miracle. But what about the 100 or more people who died? Where was their miracle? If one of those who died were from your family, would you still see it as a miracle that one person survived? No, miracles are only ordinary occurrences which haven't yet been explained. Nothing supernatural about them.


its not about for me trying to ease suffering. Tragedy is tragedy and its not something i look to God to make sense of. Death is part of existence for all and there is usually something about it that makes it difficult regardless of how or what the death is about. I wake up and see the sunrise and to me I am grateful that I see it and feel gifted to have experienced that. I see people who had tried everything to stay sober and failed try AA and the program of action and recover. That is the miracles I see. As of yet science has not been able to help us. There is not treatment for us that has been successful for most of us outside of AA and that is a simple, spiritual program and those are the miracles i see. I have 3 kids and the miracle of this astounds me constantly. there is nothing behind the curtain in these. they just are the most incredible things i get to see everyday.

Well, that puts you miles ahead of the Pope, at least. He recently equated atheists with Nazis. And most fundamentalists believe that we atheists are inherently evil, since we don't have the same moral center as they do.


wasn't he a nazi?
No one says you're crazy! I just believe that you would be far better off if you could recognize your own self-worth without resorting to the supernatural. As I said, you've come a long way, and I give you full credit for every painful step.

why?

[Thorne]

I can do both (think and believe). Seems logical to me. Faith brings comfort and peace to my mind. I am an intelligent, thoughtful woman. I also believe in God. And as for tangible proof, I look no further than my children. Argue all you want.

Belief in a god is not evil, or stupid, or crazy. Many people, now and through history, have been able to reconcile gods with their intelligence. It's when people try to make others believe in their gods that evil and stupidity come forth. That's the province of religion, not faith.

[Thorne]

May be people hate to think and prefer therefore to believe?

People have an innate need to know. That's where our curiosity comes from. And following that curiosity has brought mankind from the caves to modern society. The problems arise when it becomes important to know things which are hard to understand. Too many people are willing to settle for the simple explanations, regardless of a lack of evidence, because it's easy, it doesn't require thinking. That's where religion steps in. "God did it" is the simplest of explanations, even though there's no evidence for God or his creation. And when you are raised from infancy in a culture bathed in religious belief, you become a believer yourself. Getting away from that culture, and learning to think for yourself, can be difficult and frightening. Believe me, I know!