Book Burning

[Thorne]

And if innocent non-Americans die as a result of our action, who gives a fuck? It won't be our fault.

No, it will be the fault of those imbecilic, superstitious assholes who believe that their book has magical powers and is far more important than human life.

[TantricSoul]

Insanity.
That's the word that comes to mind in this circumstance, and there is plenty to go around on all sides.

[thir]

Insanity.
That's the word that comes to mind in this circumstance, and there is plenty to go around on all sides.

Ain't that the truth. I just saw a program about the Phelps cult and their hate church, but got no wiser as to what has happened to these people. I was totally shaken! I never would have thought I'd actually feel sorry for such people, but in the end I was. They seem driven by one emotion: fear. Fear of hell. This emotion controls their whole life, more important than family or anything else. It is almost insane.

I can see why some people think that religion is a real danger and a curse.

[MMI]

No, it will be the fault of those imbecilic, superstitious assholes who believe that their book has magical powers and is far more important than human life.

Isn't that pretty much what Pastor Terry Jones would have said?

He deliberately provoked the riots. It was HIS fault. Sure the rioters are guilty for over-reacting, but Jones burned the Koran knowing something like that would happen, just to publicise his business, the Dove Outreach Centre, and its products: hate books, hate t-shirts etc.

[thir]

Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
No, it will be the fault of those imbecilic, superstitious assholes who believe that their book has magical powers and is far more important than human life.
[/quote]


Isn't that pretty much what Pastor Terry Jones would have said?

He deliberately provoked the riots. It was HIS fault. Sure the rioters are guilty for over-reacting, but Jones burned the Koran knowing something like that would happen, just to publicise his business, the Dove Outreach Centre, and its products: hate books, hate t-shirts etc.

This is a difficult moral question. Certianly both parties are responsible for their actions.

That book burning was a dispiseable act, pretty much like the darn Mohamed drawings
in the Danish news paper. But it still does not excuse killing people.

To me a response that makes sense would be to burn a bible online, or to publish drawings mocking Jesus. Yell at each other, but that is the extent of it. It is the killings that makes me think that what I insist on calling dogmatic religions are too dangerous and have too much power over other people.

[thir]

Quote Originally Posted by MMI View Post
And if innocent non-Americans die as a result of our action, who gives a fuck? It won't be our fault.

No, it will be the fault of those imbecilic, superstitious assholes who believe that their book has magical powers and is far more important than human life.

True, the one who kills is responsible for killing. But what about the instigator? Does this person not have any responsibility at all? Or does book burning also come under the heading of 'freedom of speech'?

As in, some hateful people shout 'kill the gays kill the gays' and not only are they not part of the killing that follows, because it is all freedom of speech, and nobody needs actually do it?

[leo9]

As in, some hateful people shout 'kill the gays kill the gays' and not only are they not part of the killing that follows, because it is all freedom of speech, and nobody needs actually do it?

This is always a judgement call, and historically, the US has drawn the line a lot further over on the side of free speech than Europe. I'm pretty sure that if Pastor Jones had been in England he'd have been arrested just for proposing his trial and burning; he'd certainly be in jail now. Likewise the Wesborough Baptist Gay-haters. It is arguable that our political debate is that much less free as a result: but with all due respect, the US's wider limits for speech don't seem to have produced a markedly higher level of wisdom in the debate.

The real problem internationally is the same kind of cultural incomprehension that bedevils so much international debate. The countries that feel attacked by this have such radically different traditions of politics that they honestly do not believe that the President of the world's most heavily armed nation can only show his disapproval of this by wringing his hands in distress. One can understand why. If something similar (mutatis mutandis) happened in a Middle Eastern state, and the perpetrator went unharmed, we would take it as proved that his actions were at least approved, if not actually sponsored by the government.

[leo9]

PS - I realised after it was too late to edit that what I was referring to in the above was the book-burning, not the riots. I hope that's clear now.

[leo9]

No, it will be the fault of those imbecilic, superstitious assholes who believe that their book has magical powers and is far more important than human life.

So in your view, if one shouts "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, the responsibility for the consequences lies entirely with those imbecilic enough to believe that there was a fire?

[Thorne]

So in your view, if one shouts "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, the responsibility for the consequences lies entirely with those imbecilic enough to believe that there was a fire?

Only those who will blindly race for the exits, knocking down anyone who gets in their way.

But this is not the same kind of thing. In this case some radical Imam stood up and claimed that, since this one asshole burned the Koran, Muslims should rise up and kill anyone who is not Muslim. He didn't shout "fire"; he whispered, "kill the projectionist!"