The Myth of Increasing Violence

[Thorne]

Taking things out of that context to focus on specific areas becuase one loves the new age ideal of peacful primitive societiy being preferable to modern scoiety as somthing to be sought after (which history shows us to be way off the mark) will of course make one think that the pattern isnt there, even if its a spurious coorelation.

There is SOME validity to this kind of thinking, though. In small groups the more primitive societies did tend to be more peaceful amongst themselves. Interpersonal relationships within the tribe tended to be polite and non-violent. So there is something to say for the peaceful primitives. Of course, when you went outside the tribe all bets were off. Intertribal conflicts were common, and brutal. Not so peaceful there.

What I think we see in the development of civilization is, to some extent, an expanding of the concept of tribe. Our tribe is larger now, and in some respects can be considered to be world wide. It's hard to think of the Chinese as the enemy when you can have real-time, head-to-head conversations with Chinese people who are just like you!

On the other hand, interpersonal violence becomes more common, to an extent. Perhaps it's just a function of population: a certain percentage of people are going to lack the empathy which restricts most people from performing criminal acts, so a larger population means a greater number of criminals overall.

Just my thoughts, though. This is way outside my field.

[thir]

There is SOME validity to this kind of thinking, though. In small groups the more primitive societies did tend to be more peaceful amongst themselves. Interpersonal relationships within the tribe tended to be polite and non-violent. So there is something to say for the peaceful primitives. Of course, when you went outside the tribe all bets were off. Intertribal conflicts were common, and brutal. Not so peaceful there.

How do we know this?

Theoretically I find the idea that people behave differently outside their own clan or tribe very likely, but the question is different in what way?

Some may well have had conflicts, as you say, but there'd have to be a reason, and are we not talking early days with lots of space and food? I have such trouble with this, because we keep hearing of these enormous areas with practically no people, so where is the cause for friction?

Secondly, for instance the eskimoes never had wars that I know of - none of them. I think some of the indian tribes were more warlike than others, but mainly skirmises? And some tribes had these meeting every 7. year or something like that and debated stuff, didn't they?

What I am trying to say here is that I can see the possibility very well, but by no means any universal rule.

What I think we see in the development of civilization is, to some extent, an expanding of the concept of tribe. Our tribe is larger now, and in some respects can be considered to be world wide. It's hard to think of the Chinese as the enemy when you can have real-time, head-to-head conversations with Chinese people who are just like you!

What about people who are not like us?

On the other hand, interpersonal violence becomes more common, to an extent. Perhaps it's just a function of population: a certain percentage of people are going to lack the empathy which restricts most people from performing criminal acts, so a larger population means a greater number of criminals overall.

I think the instincts for getting along and co-operation functions with a certain number and/or at a certain close distance, and when you are beyond that, you need something extra to bring them out. For instance an emergency, which often awakens the work-together feeling or a feeling of closeness, of being in the same boat.

It doesn't always have to be so much. For instance I was once on a ferry that got stuck in the ice, and it took like 5 hours to get unstuck and complete a journey of normally about 20-30 minutes. Afte a while a lot of people sat on the floor sharing tea or coffee, or playing cards, or just talking - a scenery that would have been unthinkable without the small emergency.

Just my thoughts, though. This is way outside my field.

Outside most people's field. Doesn't mean you cannot have an idea :-)