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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by denuseri View Post
    You hardely need a religion being manipulated by an asshole or group of assholes to find this kind of bigotry in action amongst any cultural group.

    Its my opinion that homophobia completely transcends religious belief as well as politics and philosophies.
    Thank you for bringing this up. This is one of the most infuriating things I've found about anti-religious people.
    I'm not religious, but it is completely unfair to take one example and say "see how bad religion is!!??"
    saying this reflects the average christian's mentaility is a crock of shit. has violence been done in the name of God? yes, in the name of Allah? yes, in the name of Yahweh? yes. Has it been done by staunchly anti-religious people? of course, but nobody says that because Mao, Stalin, and Hitler didn'tgo to church every nonbeliever is a psychopath. Even emongst animal rights groups you'll find violent, intolerant extremists

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punish_her View Post
    but nobody says that because Mao, Stalin, and Hitler didn'tgo to church every nonbeliever is a psychopath.
    You're kidding me, right? RIGHT???

    Read some comments whenever a story mentions atheism, especially when they do something worthwhile. Read some of the comments written about, and to, Jessica Ahlquist by supposedly good Christians. There are a shitload of people out there who really do think that atheists are immoral psychopaths who secretly work for Satan.

    Yes, people have been killed in the name of Christ. Yes, people have been killed in the name of Muhammad. NO, no people have ever been killed in the name of atheism. Because there is nothing to kill over! Atheism is, simply, a lack of belief in gods! No dogma, no supernatural beings, no rules and regulations. JUST NO BELIEF! Which, according to an awful lot of "good" theists, makes me worse than Hitler, or Stalin. In fact, about the only ones who are less accepted than atheists are rapists! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to know how tolerant Christians are.
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    You're kidding me, right? RIGHT???

    Read some comments whenever a story mentions atheism, especially when they do something worthwhile. Read some of the comments written about, and to, Jessica Ahlquist by supposedly good Christians. There are a shitload of people out there who really do think that atheists are immoral psychopaths who secretly work for Satan.

    Yes, people have been killed in the name of Christ. Yes, people have been killed in the name of Muhammad. NO, no people have ever been killed in the name of atheism. Because there is nothing to kill over! Atheism is, simply, a lack of belief in gods! No dogma, no supernatural beings, no rules and regulations. JUST NO BELIEF! Which, according to an awful lot of "good" theists, makes me worse than Hitler, or Stalin. In fact, about the only ones who are less accepted than atheists are rapists! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to know how tolerant Christians are.
    oh please, he's been quoted as saying "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."
    hitler saw religion as a propaganda tool due to the First Reich's mutually-beneifical relationship with the Catholic Church in the MediEval time. Hitler was sooooo pro-religion, he systematically went about reducing or removing christian influence in nazi germany, such as replacing christian references in christmas carols with pagan references.
    and you're argument is inherently flawed. you state that religion is a cause for misery and pain and suffering because people have been killed in the name of god(s) and that nobody has been killed by aetheists, but that is mere equivocation. the real point you would need to prove is that ATHEISM WORKS AS A DETERRENT TO VIOLENCE. you can't say that 2+2=5 by proving that 2+2 does not equal 3

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punish_her View Post
    oh please, he's been quoted as saying "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."
    And how is that different from religion? Like Stalin and Mao, that's simply replacing worship of a god with worship of the state, or the leaders. It's still religion, just repackaged.

    hitler saw religion as a propaganda tool
    As do almost all leaders, even now. It's a built in mind-control mechanism, inflicted upon children by their own parents from birth. Just tweak it a little, make sure that your god sees your country as the promised land, your people as His chosen people, and you have an easy way to control your population. Virtually every religion teaches that it is necessary to be submissive to your god, to your leaders, to your "betters". Blend the religion with patriotism and you can keep vast numbers of people subservient to your will. Even when you are demonstrably insane!

    due to the First Reich's mutually-beneifical relationship with the Catholic Church in the MediEval time. Hitler was sooooo pro-religion, he systematically went about reducing or removing christian influence in nazi germany, such as replacing christian references in christmas carols with pagan references.
    Yes, the Nazis created the Reich Church, using it to supplant the Christian churches, both Catholic and Protestant. Doesn't matter, though. It was still a religious organization, and used the trappings of religion to influence the people of Germany. As I stated above, several times, when you can convince people that thinking for themselves is a bad thing, you don't have to worry about them rebelling against you. Virtually every religion I'm familiar with preaches that irrational belief is far superior to rational thinking.

    and you're argument is inherently flawed. you state that religion is a cause for misery and pain and suffering because people have been killed in the name of god(s)
    Not exactly. People are killed for many reasons, mostly for greed. Religion makes it easier for leaders to justify those killings. If you're killing your neighbor so that the local Baron can confiscate his land, it's easier to justify it by claiming it's God's will.

    and that nobody has been killed by aetheists,
    No, again. Atheists are just as capable of killing as anyone else. I said that no one has ever been killed in the NAME of atheism. You don't have huge armies marching across the land killing for no gods.

    the real point you would need to prove is that ATHEISM WORKS AS A DETERRENT TO VIOLENCE.
    Why would I have to do that? Atheism is NOT a belief system! It's not something that can be used to justify any other position. It's simply, and solely, a lack of belief in gods! ANY gods! Those who want to commit violence, whether theist or atheist, will find a reason to do it. The difference is that the theist will claim he's doing his god's will. And too many other theists will agree with him!

    you can't say that 2+2=5 by proving that 2+2 does not equal 3
    It is the theist who is claiming that 2+2=5, not the atheist. We don't always have to add +1 for our invisible friend in the sky, after all!

    Ultimately, it is people who commit violent, criminal acts, regardless of faith. As an atheist, I cannot justify such acts as being God's will. I cannot claim that mumbling about my 'sins' in a darkened booth and saying a few prayers will absolve me of the guilt of committing those acts. I cannot say that my god wants me to shoot everyone with a crooked nose. I have to have clear, rational reasons for committing any violence. But when you denigrate clear, rational thinking; when you praise those who put aside rational thinking for a belief in an imaginary being; when you instill in children an abject fear of disobedience to this invisible being; you are creating the conditions for irrational, sectarian violence. If GOD tells you to kill everyone with a crooked nose, it would be a sin NOT to do it! If GOD tells you to make slaves of your enemy's women and children, who are you to deny Him? And, most insidiously, if GOD didn't make you rich and powerful, you MUST accept your fate, be subservient to your Masters, live in poverty and pain, so you can go to heaven someday. A heaven that no one has ever seen.

    And oh, yes! God needs your money, children! Ten percent. Every week. BEFORE taxes!
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punish_her View Post
    Thank you for bringing this up. This is one of the most infuriating things I've found about anti-religious people.
    I'm not religious, but it is completely unfair to take one example and say "see how bad religion is!!??"
    saying this reflects the average christian's mentaility is a crock of shit. has violence been done in the name of God? yes, in the name of Allah? yes, in the name of Yahweh? yes. Has it been done by staunchly anti-religious people? of course, but nobody says that because Mao, Stalin, and Hitler didn'tgo to church every nonbeliever is a psychopath. Even emongst animal rights groups you'll find violent, intolerant extremists
    You certainly have a point in that, to the best of my knowledge, homosexuals are persecuted in Cuba.

    But on the other hand, right now the pope is going great guns with tageting gay people, even to blaming nuns for taking care of the need and poor, instead of blaming gays for being gays.

    "Her group was also cited in the Vatican document, along with the Leadership Conference, for focusing its work too much on poverty and economic injustice, while keeping “silent” on abortion and same-sex marriage"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/us...roup.html?_r=2


    Pope: Same-Sex Marriage Threatens “Humanity Itself”
    http://www.care2.com/causes/pope-sam...ty-itself.html

    Pope: Gay Marriage is ‘Insidious and Dangerous’
    http://www.care2.com/causes/the-pope...dangerous.html

    Hurricane Katrina: Divine Retribution Against Gays? Pope Doesn’t Object.


    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/hurrican...#ixzz1uDyr1iKV

    Pope Tells US Bishops to Fight Gay Marriage, Cohabitation

    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/pope-tel...#ixzz1uDzVKdku


    It is clearly the fundamentalist religious making all the trouble - but they do make themselves heard, not least now.

    David Trosch : "Sodomy is a graver sin than murder.

    Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church)

    "If you got to castrate your miserable self with a piece of rusty barb wire, do it."

    "Hear the word of the LORD, America, fag-enablers are worse than the fags themselves, and will be punished in the everlasting lake of fire!"

    "You telling these miserable, Hell-bound, bath house-wallowing, anal-copulating fags that God loves them!? You have bats in the belfry!"

    "American Veterans are to blame for the fag takeover of this nation. They have the power in their political lobby to influence the zeitgeist, get the fags out of the military, and back in the closet where they belong!"

    "Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death."


    Gary Potter (Catholics for Christian Political Action)
    "When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."


    Jerry Falwell (1933 - 2007)

    "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

    "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."


    And so on and so forth.

  6. #6
    {Leo9}
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punish_her View Post
    Thank you for bringing this up. This is one of the most infuriating things I've found about anti-religious people.
    I'm not religious, but it is completely unfair to take one example and say "see how bad religion is!!??"
    saying this reflects the average christian's mentaility is a crock of shit. has violence been done in the name of God? yes, in the name of Allah? yes, in the name of Yahweh? yes. Has it been done by staunchly anti-religious people? of course, but nobody says that because Mao, Stalin, and Hitler didn'tgo to church every nonbeliever is a psychopath. Even emongst animal rights groups you'll find violent, intolerant extremists
    Mao and Stalin did, if I am correct, go heavily against religion, but Hitler called upon it - Kinder, Kirche, Kuche, women making soliders for Der Faterland, working in the kitchen, and being churchgoers were good women. Why the church? Because it keeps them in their place. In a lot of former facist contries (like for instance Spain) the Catholic church was heavily in bed with the facist regime, both getting more control by the alliance. So much so, that it is only in recent years that that grip is loosening. That is why the could for instance do the baby stealing thing for so many years, in even now these crimes are not to justice, though they might be.

    The debatre here is not about your individual church goer or religious person, but about the social impact on society, as a society, by dogmatic religions. I would like to mention the Pope's many very anti this and that policies, while many individual nuns and priests, and just your individual religous person, choose to go another way.

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