Pastor Says

[Punish_her]

But the women don't necessarily WANT to leave them! They simply want the right to choose for themselves! The fact that the religion REQUIRES them to submit to their fathers, or brothers, or husbands, is where the problem lies. And remember, they wouldn't just be leaving their church. In many, if not most, cases, they would be exiled from their own families as well.

you can't force someone to accept someone else. if my father had told me that if I didn't go to college in x state, he wouldn't have helped me pay for it, he's completely within his rights to do that. if my father tells me if i was gay he wouldn't talk to me, he's completely free to do that. it's not coercion, it's just someone being whiney they don't get their way.

Unless she has one child for each husband. With so many providers, she certainly wouldn't need to work outside the home. She could be a veritable baby factory if she wished. Or perhaps she just wants to be able to fuck all night without worrying about having a limp dick interfere with her fun. The point is, SHE gets to decide. And men, generally, don't like that.

this is the most illogical thing i've ever heard. CUCKOLDED MEN DON'T LAST IN THE EVOLUTIONARY GENE POOL! if you're really this much of a self-hating man, i pity you

If humans ONLY mated for procreation that might be true. But with modern medicine, a man could insure that any children would be his, but still share her if he wished.

this happens, they're called swingers

The only benefit of monogamy for men is the lower cost of maintaining a household. If he can afford it, polygamy would be more beneficial for any individual male. And in the genetics game, it is the Alpha male who's seed tends to dominate. He doesn't want the others to propagate at all, so it's in his interest to deprive them of wives. And, to a certain extent, women tend to be attracted to Alpha males, as they would be considered genetically superior, whose children would be likely to survive into adulthood, in order to continue the genetic line. Of course, modern morality, not to mention modern psychology, has changed us all. For the better, I should hope. After all, we aren't strictly animals anymore.

the 5,000 years of society is a comically short amount of time compared to the primordial ooze we all crawled out of. only a fool would believe that a nice guy gets laid as much as an outlaw biker

[Thorne]

you can't force someone to accept someone else. if my father had told me that if I didn't go to college in x state, he wouldn't have helped me pay for it, he's completely within his rights to do that. if my father tells me if i was gay he wouldn't talk to me, he's completely free to do that. it's not coercion, it's just someone being whiney they don't get their way.

It is attempted coercion. Your father is using his authority to try and force you to do as he wishes. Unless you can afford to pay for your own college, if you don't do what he wants you risk not getting the education you want. If you were gay, he wouldn't speak to you (which might actually be a good thing!) But what if he tells you that if you don't marry the old widow next door he'll toss you out on your own? And you're only 14 years old? What real choice would you have? Sometimes, submitting is the safer choice. That doesn't make it any less coercive.

this is the most illogical thing i've ever heard. CUCKOLDED MEN DON'T LAST IN THE EVOLUTIONARY GENE POOL! if you're really this much of a self-hating man, i pity you

They do if they are also cheating on their wives! And I don't hate myself. I respect women. Even married one. JUST one.

this happens, they're called swingers

Yes, it does happen. But it's a lot riskier if the husband can't insure that his wife won't get pregnant by another man.

the 5,000 years of society is a comically short amount of time compared to the primordial ooze we all crawled out of. only a fool would believe that a nice guy gets laid as much as an outlaw biker

Except that the outlaw biker is prone to live hard and die young. And the women he's using aren't likely to live long, either. Certainly not if they get pregnant and lose their appeal. The 'nice' guy will tend to live longer, and therefore have more opportunity for sexual encounters, and far more likelihood of having healthy, viable offspring.

One thing evolution demonstrates is that anti-social, even criminal, activity is not necessarily a positive trait. People like that don't tend to propagate nearly as often or as successfully as more normal, acceptable males. Yes, alpha males will have a better chance of mating with the most desirable females. But in human terms, at least, one of the more desirable characteristics of a prospective husband and father is stability. And outlaw bikers don't typically have that.

[thir]

the 5,000 years of society is a comically short amount of time compared to the primordial ooze we all crawled out of.

Agreed! And no one - noone - knows how groups and societies were organises in those distant times.

only a fool would believe that a nice guy gets laid as much as an outlaw biker

Then call me a fool, because that is exactly what I think.

Anyway, you keep talking about marriage and getting kids, and who do you think most women would want to marry? According to your line of reasoning, the one who would help support the kids.

Honestly, I think there is a sort of misunderstanding between men and women in these matters. Some men seem to think that being a criminal or off society violent person is macho, and that that will attract women. But I think that the things that (might) give points between men are not neccesarily the things that (might) score with women.

[Punish_her]

Agreed! And no one - noone - knows how groups and societies were organises in those distant times.



Then call me a fool, because that is exactly what I think.

Anyway, you keep talking about marriage and getting kids, and who do you think most women would want to marry? According to your line of reasoning, the one who would help support the kids.

Honestly, I think there is a sort of misunderstanding between men and women in these matters. Some men seem to think that being a criminal or off society violent person is macho, and that that will attract women. But I think that the things that (might) give points between men are not neccesarily the things that (might) score with women.

incredibly, unequivocally false. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGMTBVFQJ1.DTL

[thir]

incredibly, unequivocally false. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGMTBVFQJ1.DTL

Do you think that the women who wants to marry a criminal on death row for fame value are representative for the female sex?

If so they would not get proposals in tens, but in millions.

[Punish_her]

Do you think that the women who wants to marry a criminal on death row for fame value are representative for the female sex?

If so they would not get proposals in tens, but in millions.

women don't like nice guys. if you dont know that by now, i pity you
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_1...-10391704.html

[thir]

women don't like nice guys. if you dont know that by now, i pity you
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_1...-10391704.html

Ehm - I happen to be a woman myself - If you were aware of that, I am a bit puzzled your remark -?

I do not choose my partners according to whether they are 'nice' or 'bad', sounds a bit juvenile to me, actually, not to say oversimplified. Not many people are all 'bad' or 'nice', that seem quite a two dimenisonal view of humans.

Anyway, this one survey said:

"Who did the gals go for? The study showed they preferred guys who looked proud or moody and ashamed. But the guys were most sexually attracted to women who looked happy, and least attracted to those who appeared proud and confident."

No figures given.

"But Beall pointed out in the statement that the people in the study weren't asked to evaluate men on the basis of whether they might make a good mate. "We wanted their gut reactions on carnal, sexual attraction," he said."

UBC says about this:

"Very few studies have explored the relationship between emotions and attraction, and this is the first to report a significant gender difference in the attractiveness of smiles. The study, published online today in the American Psychological Association journal Emotion, is also the first to investigate the attractiveness of displays of pride and shame."

"He [Alec Beall, a UBC psychology graduate student and study co-author]says previous studies have found positive emotional traits and a nice personality to be highly desirable in a relationship partners."

"While this study focused on sexual attraction between heterosexual men and women in North America, the researchers say future studies will be required to explore the relationship between emotions and sexual attractiveness among homosexuals and non-Western cultures."

"Overall, the researchers found that men ranked women more attractive than women ranked men."

Underlinings are mine.

http://www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca/2011...ttractiveness/

Not such a one-sided result as you would have it, I think. These US women (representative, or taken from students?) seem to like shamed and proud men equally - a bit confusing really. As for the pride, I found the pic they showed to be 'happy' and showing off muscles as well as 'proud', and it would be fun to see what women and men from other cultures would choose.
As for all the interpretations and ideas the researchers come up with, they are just that - ideas.