Would You Believe???

[mkemse]

Don't know if anyone heard about this or not, it is true it happenend Friday Night, Halloween, why bring little kids into Political debtaes, they want candy, they don't even know in somecases what a Presidential Election is, depending on their age.
This story tops all I have read so far this Election season
Any coments would be apprciated



Associated Press
2:55 PM CDT, November 1, 2008

GROSSE POINTE FARMS, Mich. - A woman in the affluent Detroit suburb of Grosse Pointe Farms has doled out political tricks by refusing Halloween treats to children whose parents support Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

Shirley Nagel passed out candy Friday, but only to those who shared her support for Republican presidential candidate John McCain and running mate Sarah Palin.

Television station WJBK says a sign posted outside Nagel's house, about 10 miles northeast of downtown Detroit, served this notice to trick-or-treaters: "No handouts for Obama supporters, liars, tricksters or kids of supporters."

Nagel tells WJBK that "Obama's scary." When asked about children who were turned away empty-handed and crying, she said: "Oh well. Everybody has a choice."

it might be added that a neighbor of hers placed as sign on her lawn as well, it read "Obamam 4 Peace" EVERYONE gets candy

[Diablo]

It is just a symptom of the 2 Americas that certain parts of the Conservative movement is trying to foster to scare people. It is just sad that people buy into this and even worse to take it out on children.

And even broader it is a symptom of the American philosophy that nothing is ever my fault it is always their fault. It is that mentality that some conservative groups are buying into to say that people who are against the war in Iraq are defeatist and want to see the troops come home in defeat. And when you see people talking about the real America.

The whole thing makes me sick and ashamed to be American when the ideals of this nation, what these troops are supposedly fighting for, when used are labeled as unAmerican. Welcome back Joe McCarthy next time never return.

[Ragoczy]

The world's full of assholes who don't know where to draw the line.

A few weeks ago there was a community garage sale here and my thirteen-year old daughter set up a table in our driveway to sell cookies and cupcakes -- trying to earn some money for a convention she wants to go to. We have a McCain sign in our yard and some asshole gave her a hard time about it. Said he wouldn't buy any "McCain-cookies". I don't care if they don't want to buy a cookie, but there's no reason to bring politics up with a child.

It's also counter-productive -- all the kids learned from that woman's actions are that "Republicans are mean and don't give us candy".

[mkemse]

The world's full of assholes who don't know where to draw the line.

A few weeks ago there was a community garage sale here and my thirteen-year old daughter set up a table in our driveway to sell cookies and cupcakes -- trying to earn some money for a convention she wants to go to. We have a McCain sign in our yard and some asshole gave her a hard time about it. Said he wouldn't buy any "McCain-cookies". I don't care if they don't want to buy a cookie, but there's no reason to bring politics up with a child.

It's also counter-productive -- all the kids learned from that woman's actions are that "Republicans are mean and don't give us candy".

Thanks,I agrewith you 100%, kids HAVE TO BE LEFT OUT OF THIS, plain and simple, there is no excuse on the face of the EARTH what this lady did to these kids

[Ragoczy]

It is just a symptom of the 2 Americas that certain parts of the Conservative movement is trying to foster to scare people. It is just sad that people buy into this and even worse to take it out on children.

And even broader it is a symptom of the American philosophy that nothing is ever my fault it is always their fault. It is that mentality that some conservative groups are buying into to say that people who are against the war in Iraq are defeatist and want to see the troops come home in defeat. And when you see people talking about the real America.

The whole thing makes me sick and ashamed to be American when the ideals of this nation, what these troops are supposedly fighting for, when used are labeled as unAmerican. Welcome back Joe McCarthy next time never return.

This is not a "conservative" phenomena. Both sides have people who are unable to separate politics from personal -- who won't do business with someone who supports the "other side" or choose to engage children. Or worse, teach their children that the other party is some sort of enemy without also teaching them the difference between political disagreement and personal.

My daughter caught crap because we have a McCain sign in our yard. A friend had teenagers making insulting comments to her on Halloween because she has a McCain sign. A twelve-year old here in Florida got called a racist because she wore a McCain t-shirt.

It's not reasonable to put all of the divisiveness on conservatives, especially in the middle of an election where it's been said, repeatedly, that "only a racist will vote for McCain".

[Diablo]

Agreed Ragoczy but certain Conservative groups mainly the NeoCons make it a policy. And if you reread my post I did not label all Conservatives.

I am a Conservative, and I want Obama to win so the hijacking of the Republican party will hopefully end.

[Ragoczy]

Agreed Ragoczy but certain Conservative groups mainly the NeoCons make it a policy. And if you reread my post I did not label all Conservatives.

I am a Conservative, and I want Obama to win so the hijacking of the Republican party will hopefully end.

But the divisiveness won't end until both sides get the message.

I want Cynthia Mackinnie to win so we can have four years of hilarity. Or maybe the guy who wants to bring back Prohibition -- that'd probably unite both parties, if their booze got taken away.

[Diablo]

You might be onto to something there.

The American people allow it to continue by their unwillingness to look past sound bites and vote red or blue instead of who or what. I don't see much changing until the voters put their feet down and say no more.

[Muskan]

And Guess who showcased that incident?

No candy for kids if they support Obama! (This is from FOX News...congrats to them!)
http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/s...stume_goes_to/

In general people blame FOX to be pro-republican or pro-mccain.

[mkemse]

And Guess who showcased that incident?

No candy for kids if they support Obama! (This is from FOX News...congrats to them!)
http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/s...stume_goes_to/

In general people blame FOX to be pro-republican or pro-mccain.

I agree they are 100% McCain,Fox is possible the most Conservative Network on TV

wonder what she will do if Obama wins?? No more Breakfast,Lunch or Dinner for HER family??

Only in America

[Muskan]

wonder what she will do if Obama wins?? No more Breakfast,Lunch or Dinner for HER family??

Obama or any democrat is not going to be the bread earner of her family so don't worry about lunch and dinner of her family.
And no matters americans call their president as Commander In Chief (as if america is always fighting some war) it doesn't mean that America is property of some or any president.

The problem is, no matters she is ardent supporter of republicans, her silly and notorious attitude won't be helping the republicans, it may turn out some votes against them though. And on humanitarian point of view, her attitude is ridiculous.

[hopperboo]

vote red or blue instead of who or what

I agree, though I think more reps/dems are moving sides this time around.

I don't think that is such a wonderful thing when they are following the ones chanting 'change,' but that is just my opinion.

[leah06]

It's not reasonable to put all of the divisiveness on conservatives, especially in the middle of an election where it's been said, repeatedly, that "only a racist will vote for McCain".

I totally agree that there are assholes of all stripes out there and that politics seems to bring that out, so I'm also sure that this has been said as well, but I'm pretty sure it's not a mainstream comment.

[mkemse]

let's send her a whole case of homemade Obama cookies (what ever those are LOL)

[denuseri]

The candy thing is in my opinion just totally wrong. So is the asshole that gave Rag's little gril crap for the sign, so is the super dupper asshole that went through our parking lot last nite at work slashing only tires of cars with McCain/Palin bumper sitickers. smh

There has even been talk that there will be a race riot if Obama doesnt win. WTF??? and a victory riot if he does win???WTFx2???!!!

As for our troops, when you say one thing about them and do another its also just plain wrong.

The hipocracy is very evident (especially to those who have served or have loved ones that have or are serving) in the statments of those that say We support the troops but not thier war" , its one thing to say you dont like the policies of the guy in charge at the time, its another thing entirely to undermine the morale of the guys and gals fighting over there so we dont have to fight from our doorsteps over here.

As for the media....its just all around wrong, a self serving beast that feeds on advertising dollars and could give a crap less about "we the people" Fox is barely conservative by the standards of the majority of the right.

Lets see one news station on tv and a hand full of shows. Verses: Ted Turner's (modern day William Randolph Hearst) personal propoganda stations (anything remotely associated to CNN and the entire rest of the media.

Sounds more like Fox is the lone cry in the wilderness to me.

With a crowd of rabid liberals waiting in the wings to shout them down every chance they get.

Some tolerance and diversity there huh?

and thats just telelvison, ...

...radio (has like what 2 or is it 3) conservative shows, and newpapers are just as bad if not worse.

Of course thats not the only medium for liberal conversion of the "once free" into "proper socialist sheep".

Tell me how a teacher in a high school public speaking class has the right to subjectively attempt to fail any student that even remotely expressess a conservative view point?

What the heck does politics and the war in Iraq or "if you don't vote for Obama the world will end" have to do with taking "Latin" in colledge?

My niece's 1st grade teacher even has three big Obama/Bidden (nothing from the other side of course) stickers promemently displayed at the front of her classroom for all the little ones to see and ask her about.

Though honestly, I am not even going to begin about how the liberals have destroyed the education system, I need a seperate thread for that alone.

Funny how all the enemies of the United States want Obama to win isnt it? Iran, Venezuala, N.Korea, Syria, AlQuaida, etc etc...all say they cant wait for the socialist messiah to take office.

The enemey within is however far more dangerous in many ways.

[mkemse]

Didn't know that Obama was a Soialist, her has as far as I have read no plan to have Gornerment take over 100% of every, The Media, All Banks and Busineeses, All News Papers, only doing that can he make this Country a Socialist State

Let's see what happenes with the final vote counts before anyone claims Victory

2 quotes to remember for elelction returns tomorrow night

Yogi Berra Of The New York Yankess "It Ain't Over Til It's Over"

and "The Opera Aint Over Til The Fat Lady Sings" and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has seen the Fat Lady on the scene yet

who ever everyone voted for GOOD LUCK with your Candidate for me, I will just be thrilled to have all those annyonig TV, Radio and Mailers final stop no more POltical Ads (for at least 1-1 1/2 yearsany til the House Has Mid Tewrm Elections in 2010

But Hey. at least we can voice our opposition and not be arrested for it and vote for who we want without being intimedated into voting for someone

And 1 final thought. maybe the most important on Election Day eve,
If for any reason you decide not to vote, kindly refrain from complaining about who won

Good Luck at all voting

[Diablo]

/sarcasm I find it funny how all the liberals want to do is destroy this country and only conservatives can do anything worthy. /endsarcasm

Hello target audience.

was directed at Denuseri's post.

[mkemse]

Wasn't aware that Liberal wanted to dystroy this country not sure that only Conservatives do things worthy

[mkemse]

I find it funny how all the liberals want to do is destroy this country and only conservatives can do anything worthy.

Hello target audience.

Intresting, you had a Liberal leave Office in 2001 and left behind a $500 Billion Dollar Surplus in our Budget
You have a "Fiscal" Conservative Leaving Office in January and will be leaving a Defecit of just shy of 1 Trilloin Dollars if not over that by the end of January, which will take gnenerations to pay back, our Econmy is in the tanks, nobody can afford their mortages,but this I blame NOT on Bush but on the Banking Industry, can
unemplyment is at about 6.7% the highest in 6 years and yet Republicans can only do things worthy??

[denuseri]

Smells the sarcasm and decides to spray some frebreeze in the thread

and "The Opera Aint Over Til The Fat Lady Sings" and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has seen the Fat Lady on the scene yet

lol, she didnt make it past the primary mkemse!!!! but... she might find a way to sing yet though

I havent started ripping the conservatives btw Diablo....yet, give me a chance I will get around to them too some time, its a promise, wait a second I allready have kinda ripped them before in the water boarding link and some others leme find the thread,.......(20 minutes later).....buried in the archives guess, I will have to do it all over some day.

Truth be told I am against both political parties the majority of the time.

Liberals in general allways lean towards socialism, at least ever since they started to actually belive the government could solve all thier woes. After that communism its the far left end of the political spectum, which some will argue is a circle since all the comunisit countries went all the way to the totalitarian far right shortly after achieving power. <most people prefer the middle btw, and only lean left or right on certian issues like abortion or gay marrige ot gun rights etc etc, not everyone in each party is a carbon copy of the person next to them, heck the only reason i am even registered in one party is to be able to vote in a primary

The greeks invented a word for people that didnt participate in thier political selection prossess,......( lemme see ahh yes here it is)....idiot

hugs and special openmouthed kissess (mainly becuase a cybersex session which each of u would take like forever, unless that is we have a gang bang lol winks) too everyone for participating in the various debates we have had in this political section of the forums


have a happy election day tomarrow

[Diablo]

@Denuseri I will take your word for your disdain of both parties. Your post does not hint at that at all.

The US has been a limited Socialist state for over 70 years now. Medicare, social security, more recently medicaid and job assistance.

My sarcasm was triggered by the undermine the morale statement. It irks me to no end to see someone talk about supporting the troops and not the war as being a real detriment to them. Isn't that they are supposedly over there fighting for? The right of every American to be able to be against something, justified or not and be able to express that.

I support our troops and thank them for their service and except those serving in Afghanistan who have been left hung out to dry by an inept administration trying to fight a real enemy, I support them coming home and getting out of harms way. Now relistically they can not get just get up and leave. That is almost as irresponsible as sending them there in the first place.

[mkemse]

@Denuseri I will take your word for your disdain of both parties. Your post does not hint at that at all.

The US has been a limited Socialist state for over 70 years now. Medicare, social security, more recently medicaid and job assistance.

My sarcasm was triggered by the undermine the morale statement. It irks me to no end to see someone talk about supporting the troops and not the war as being a real detriment to them. Isn't that they are supposedly over there fighting for? The right of every American to be able to be against something, justified or not and be able to express that.

I support our troops and thank them for their service and except those serving in Afghanistan who have been left hung out to dry by an inept administration trying to fight a real enemy, I support them coming home and getting out of harms way. Now relistically they can not get just get up and leave. That is almost as irresponsible as sending them there in the first place.

I agree, if we had placed all our tropps and resources into Afghanistan, I believe that Bin Laden would have long since been captured or killed, but thisi s just my feeling we have spend WAY to much Mnoey and too many lives in Iraq, who after 7 years seen unable or unwilling to take cotrol thmeselves, but then again if youwere intheir place and knew a country helpnig you would be there "til the end" what motivation does Iraq have to move itself forward

If they can't take control of thier own contry in 7 years or make efforts to, then when??

[mkemse]

My apologies to all for getting off the theme of this thread, which was the Ladyand Trick or Treat Candy

[denuseri]

lol, mkemse thread highjacked by its own author film at 11

Actually i dont know why we bother making different threads when we end up drifting back to the main theme of this whole section anyway eventually in every thread, politics winks and if my posts sound one sided its probabley becuase the posts i am responding too are equally one sided, someone has to play devils advocate in a disscussion or there is only consensua and no debate

But you both did bring up a points that beg for response so here goes..

How can you capture Bin Laden in a country where he is not? As we discussed in other threads Iraq was at the time a central area for this, strategically speaking its just like in Chess where you want to control the center before you start striking into the enemies back lines. If the politicians would stay the frak out of this and let the generals do it they way they wanted the war would probably been over a long time ago. Back when this thing first started we first invaded Afganistan the bad guys went to ground, and ran away, bleeding into other areas, when we occupied Iraq it gave them somewhere to focus, becuase we are smack dab in the middle of thier business then now that Iraq is really allmost won they have been fleeing back to afganistan and other areas on the perefery. Its a very good sign that they resolve has tremendously been weakened, Thay have all but lost the center of the proverbial board now.

We knew getting into this it was going to be a very very long war or series of wars, the terroists are not going to just stop, even if Obama gets elected.

Diablo: "My sarcasm was triggered by the undermine the morale statement."

So morality shouldn't be part of the equation in being an American or excersising our right to free speach?

I would have to say the media ceretianly agrees.

Have you given any thought to the possibility that such statements also undermine the troops and thier families morale?
To know that so many of the people they are fighting to protect despise what they are trying to accomplish and dont believe in what they are doing ,must surely be at the very least a bum deal huh?
That the people back home think the mission they are putting thier lives on the line for is wrong or somehow not justified?
That the loss of thier lives and the loss of thier brothers and sisters in arms is only held in a hypocritical sort of reverance at best by far to many Americans?

You dont see the hypocracy in that?

We hear all the time from our friends serving abroad how they feel about it.

Not to mention, my Owner is himself a veteran, as was my Father and many of my other realtives and friends.

On a lighter thread topic note:

There was a local news story about a boy trick or treating as a ballot box, kinda holding his own little election, candy was placed through a slot in the front of the boys box/outfit according to which canidate the candy givers prefered. (lots of people voting multiple times lol election fraud was rampant) though his results are admitably disputable due to the fact that he ate half the candy before his parents could tally the votes at home.

I see lots of promises from both canidates, but i dont believe Obama has our best intrests in mind, now if it was the fat lady vs McCain that might be a different story.

In any event I hope you both vote.

[mkemse]

lol, mkemse thread highjacked by its own author film at 11

Actually i dont know why we bother making different threads when we end up drifting back to the main theme of this whole section anyway eventually in every thread, politics winks and if my posts sound one sided its probabley becuase the posts i am responding too are equally one sided, someone has to play devils advocate in a disscussion or there is only consensua and no debate

But you both did bring up a points that beg for response so here goes..

How can you capture Bin Laden in a country where he is not? As we discussed in other threads Iraq was at the time a central area for this, strategically speaking its just like in Chess where you want to control the center before you start striking into the enemies back lines. If the politicians would stay the frak out of this and let the generals do it they way they wanted the war would probably been over a long time ago. Back when this thing first started we first invaded Afganistan the bad guys went to ground, and ran away, bleeding into other areas, when we occupied Iraq it gave them somewhere to focus, becuase we are smack dab in the middle of thier business then now that Iraq is really allmost won they have been fleeing back to afganistan and other areas on the perefery. Its a very good sign that they resolve has tremendously been weakened, Thay have all but lost the center of the proverbial board now.

We knew getting into this it was going to be a very very long war or series of wars, the terroists are not going to just stop, even if Obama gets elected.

Diablo: "My sarcasm was triggered by the undermine the morale statement."

So morality shouldn't be part of the equation in being an American or excersising our right to free speach?

I would have to say the media ceretianly agrees.

Have you given any thought to the possibility that such statements also undermine the troops and thier families morale?
To know that so many of the people they are fighting to protect despise what they are trying to accomplish and dont believe in what they are doing ,must surely be at the very least a bum deal huh?
That the people back home think the mission they are putting thier lives on the line for is wrong or somehow not justified?
That the loss of thier lives and the loss of thier brothers and sisters in arms is only held in a hypocritical sort of reverance at best by far to many Americans?

You dont see the hypocracy in that?

We hear all the time from our friends serving abroad how they feel about it.

Not to mention, my Owner is himself a veteran, as was my Father and many of my other realtives and friends.

On a lighter thread topic note:

There was a local news story about a boy trick or treating as a ballot box, kinda holding his own little election, candy was placed through a slot in the front of the boys box/outfit according to which canidate the candy givers prefered. (lots of people voting multiple times lol election fraud was rampant) though his results are admitably disputable due to the fact that he ate half the candy before his parents could tally the votes at home.

I see lots of promises from both canidates, but i dont believe Obama has our best intrests in mind, now if it was the fat lady vs McCain that might be a different story.

In any event I hope you both vote.

That comment on Bin Laden was NOT meant to betaken seriously, but someone on the radio mentioned it would be intresting if they annouced his capture tomorrow morning, butthereality is even if they did, i seriously doubt atthis poit it would have any major effect on the elction being one doen the same day

We know where Mccain stands, 90% of thetime with Bush, and where Obama may be viewed as rsiky, he desrves a chance if for no other reason, we can not afford as a nation 4 more eyars of what we have now

Asfar a the boy goes, does that qualify as "Stuffing the Ballot Box" LOL couldn't pas that up

anyway it is nearing midnight where I am and my biggest issue tomorrow is i justfound out my polling place is the school across the street from me, i may have to block our parking lot ff so our residentscan park here and not voters, we have very limited space

Let's see what happen tomorrow, Carl Rove who i ... weel never mnd tha even said tonightunless a mircle happen Mccain will be slaughtered, and if he looses he can probably blame more his VP choice then anyhingelse, Rove and other conservatives have already said her selection may have killed his chances beforetheelection took place and remember, her own new paper the Alaskan Tribune even Endorsed Obama, talk about no faith in your own home town girl

Who ever you voted for or will be good luck tomorrow only time will tell now

Just glass all the tv,radio and mailers will finaly end, imagine howmany tress lost their livesfor this elections

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

How can you capture Bin Laden in a country where he is not? As we discussed in other threads Iraq was at the time a central area for this, strategically speaking its just like in Chess where you want to control the center before you start striking into the enemies back lines. If the politicians would stay the frak out of this and let the generals do it they way they wanted the war would probably been over a long time ago. Back when this thing first started we first invaded Afganistan the bad guys went to ground, and ran away, bleeding into other areas, when we occupied Iraq it gave them somewhere to focus, becuase we are smack dab in the middle of thier business then now that Iraq is really allmost won they have been fleeing back to afganistan and other areas on the perefery. Its a very good sign that they resolve has tremendously been weakened, Thay have all but lost the center of the proverbial board now.

This shows a lack of understanding of the political situation in the Middle East prior to the invasion of Iraq by U.S. led forces. Iraq and Iran have been adversaries for a very long time, actually tracing tribal differences back millenia and religious differences about 800 years or so. Iraq kept Iran at bay in the region through mutual distrust. Syria was leery of the political movement that had taken over Iran after the Shah was overthrown so has been taking a much lower profile in the region. Our invasion gave them something to focus on. Remember that the first name of the invasion was Iraqi Crusade (as I recall. I know the word "Crusade" was in the name and thinking at the time that this was either a demonstration of complete ignorance of the region or a bone tossed to the religious right. I still don't know for sure which they meant.) before they hastily re-named it Iraqi Freedom? Using the chess analogy, the situation was in stalemate before our invasion. We screwed it up with a badly planned, poorly executed, illegally justified invasion of a country, while no friend of ours, has never committed an overt hostile act against us.

Diablo: "My sarcasm was triggered by the undermine the morale statement."

So morality shouldn't be part of the equation in being an American or excersising our right to free speach?

It appears you have mixed up "morale" with "morals"? Not sure I follow that thought.

Have you given any thought to the possibility that such statements also undermine the troops and thier families morale?
To know that so many of the people they are fighting to protect despise what they are trying to accomplish and dont believe in what they are doing ,must surely be at the very least a bum deal huh?
That the people back home think the mission they are putting thier lives on the line for is wrong or somehow not justified?
That the loss of thier lives and the loss of thier brothers and sisters in arms is only held in a hypocritical sort of reverance at best by far to many Americans?

You dont see the hypocracy in that?

Personally, I find there is a great deal more hypocrisy in even suggesting that people can't hold in great reverence the decision of their fellow Americans to serve in the military and strongly disagree with the political decisions that sent them into harm's way. From my viewpoint those that speak out have the troops welfare more in mind than those that blindly follow a misguided president's agenda.

Not to mention, my Owner is himself a veteran, as was my Father and many of my other realtives and friends.

I'm a combat veteran myself. My years in the Army and my times in combat zones do not make my opinions about the correctness of a war any better or more valid than someone who has never served but has studied the situation from a more dispassionate distance.

Anyway, thats my Election Day two cents worth. Go vote!