BDSM clubs - submitting to (or dominating) 'strangers'

A question that's been picking my brain lately, as someone who has never gone to a BDSM club and is imagining herself in that situation. More from the point of view as a submissive but I'm sure it could also apply to dominants so don't be put off from replying in either case -

I'm just curious as to how one can go to a club/dungeon/private party/whatever and meet a stranger there, maybe have a few drinks before playing but all the same they are still basically a stranger to you. And then submit to this person you've just met!! For me, the element of complete trust is absolutely key in any d/s relationship (I use this term loosely here applying just to the moment of play, maybe replace it for the word 'activity') and it really confuses me to try to understand how some people can submit so easily in this way.

Opinions please :-)

There is a difference between bottoming and submitting. You can enjoy a play scene without sex, if you like, and not have to worry about giving up complete trust.

I would consider "topping" for a relative stranger, taking the reins for that encounter, but truly being Dom to someone I don't know well is simply not an option for me personally. I prefer to know someone well enough to know their buttons, and which ones to push for the desired effect. It just isn't as fun for me to "play" with a guy I have to guess about, regardless of whether they've elected to submit or bottom. I have done it, back when I did many other irresponsible things, no condemnation either way. It just isn't an activity that presently appeals. Someone else's submission puts a great deal of responsibility in my hands, and I'd rather only be responsible for those close to me.

There is a big difference between submitting for a couple hours to someone in a controlled enviroment such as a public dungeon where activities are monitored by staff and placing oneself at the complete mercy of another in a different location that will be private.

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Originally Posted by denuseri

There is a big difference between submitting for a couple hours to someone in a controlled enviroment such as a public dungeon where activities are monitored by staff and placing oneself at the complete mercy of another in a different location that will be private.

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Well of course there is! My curiosity lies on the emotional aspect of submitting to a relative stranger, not the physical danger in submitting to the same at a completely private location, which of course would be beyond stupid and you just wouldn't do it!

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Originally Posted by _ID_

There is a difference between bottoming and submitting. You can enjoy a play scene without sex, if you like, and not have to worry about giving up complete trust.

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A play scene without sex would still require a considerable amount of trust, would it not?

Also whilst you mention it (and I know this is the kind of question each person will have a different answer to), what's the rough percentage of people who will indulge in play scenes without sex? Will depend on each individual what their own limits are and what they'll want to do, but I'm figuring there must be some kind of relatively clear split in there somewhere...

While I can understand how other people can have the ability to trust someone they just met to not take (undue ;) ) advantage of their bound body, it's something I personally wouldn't be comfortable with. Trust is really important, otherwise it's not as easy to relax into the scene. That's why it's good to have someone who you know understands the subtlties of your limits. Once limits start getting breached, even accidentally, trust and enjoyment could plummet.

Even scenes without sex still require trust - at the end of the day you're still tied up and relatively powerless to a complete stranger. Just because you're not have genitals rubbed doesn't mean the act has no significance.

At the end of the day, it's another fetish, and we all have kinks we like to follow. To those of you who go to clubs for this, good on you! I don't know how you muster the courage, but congratulations on being able to.

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Originally Posted by DeityorDevil

I would consider "topping" for a relative stranger, taking the reins for that encounter, but truly being Dom to someone I don't know well is simply not an option for me personally.

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Just to be 100% clear, can you explain how you see the difference between topping/bottoming and submitting/dominating? What is it that would make you consider topping for a relative stranger but not domming them? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by CaptainZeus

At the end of the day, it's another fetish, and we all have kinks we like to follow.

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Agreed. But would I be right, then, in assuming that clubs are more for those whose kink is purely on the physical side - getting tied, getting spanked, whatever - than when combined with the more mental/emotional side of actual submission or domination? And if that is the case, where do us other folk go who aren't attracted by this scene/type of activity or wouldn't feel entirely comfortable there for reasons aforementioned?

From what I've read, ami, I've seen people use forums with sections for doms and subs to find each other. Never used it myself, so I can't comment on the safety (before you do, very much make sure you read up on safety and follow all the precautions), but I imagine it's an effective way to find like-minded people to form more of a relationship and emotional power trade with compared to a brief session at the local dungeon now and then. Some dom-sub relationships form out of existing 'vanilla' relationships, so it can work even if you have or look for a relationship with someone who is open to the idea.

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Originally Posted by CaptainZeus

Some dom-sub relationships form out of existing 'vanilla' relationships, so it can work even if you have or look for a relationship with someone who is open to the idea.

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I know - I used to be there, and it was so easy back then, exploring BDSM together and both being new to it all. Since then it's not been so easy! You may well be onto something with the forums dom/sub section bit. Have you seen any other forums besides this one you think might be useful to me? Thank you.

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Originally Posted by ami_r90

A play scene without sex would still require a considerable amount of trust, would it not?

Also whilst you mention it (and I know this is the kind of question each person will have a different answer to), what's the rough percentage of people who will indulge in play scenes without sex? Will depend on each individual what their own limits are and what they'll want to do, but I'm figuring there must be some kind of relatively clear split in there somewhere...

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A play scene without sex does require that you trust the person to stay within the negotiated terms, just as when you negotiate a full on Master slave relationship, or anything in between. The level of trust required varies, not that you trust or don't trust. e.g. If I see a bottom, or a submissive (bottoming being that a person allows me to do things to and with their body having their input during the scene for changes and such, submitting being that I can do things with their mind inside the negotiated terms without them trying to direct or control things) that I would like to have a scene with. I can negotiate a scene that is simply a bare bottom spanking them on a kneeling bench. That only requires that they trust I won't harm them unintentionally by hitting their tail bone or any other careless act. It isn't sex, and it requires a minimum amount of trust.

As far as who enjoys play scenes with or without sex... Well I've known many submissives to enjoy a play scene without sex, I've also know submissives that look at play without sex as having cake, but not being able to eat the frosting on top. I've not noticed a percentage really, as most submissives I know tend to prefer to be in a sexual relationship with their dominant. Not all mind you, but most.

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Just to be 100% clear, can you explain how you see the difference between topping/bottoming and submitting/dominating? What is it that would make you consider topping for a relative stranger but not domming them? Thanks.

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"Topping/bottoming," as far as I/my partner consider it is that a person choosing to bottom, goes along with what is happening of their own will, and remains passive in decision making, but doesn't hand over the control, or the choices in what happens to the top. Topping, means calling the shots, but not really being responsible for the choices of another. A D/s "encounter" if you will, puts the responsibility for the needs and desires, as well as the safety and well being, of the sub in the Doms hands. As you mentioned, the risks are much higher, both physically and emotionally. Topping is generally how I approach "vanilla" interactions as well. ;)

Clear as mud?

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Originally Posted by ami_r90

I know - I used to be there, and it was so easy back then, exploring BDSM together and both being new to it all. Since then it's not been so easy! You may well be onto something with the forums dom/sub section bit. Have you seen any other forums besides this one you think might be useful to me? Thank you.

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I'll PM you those sites instead. I guess it got nuked by a mod while I slept.

I think I posted my ideas on topping/domming in another thread somewhere on this board, but the basic jist of my idea was that it's a matter of control. Bottoms let their partners take control, and can take it back if they get uncomfortable. Subs give their partners control and won't take it back so easily as a bottom.

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Originally Posted by ami_r90

I'm just curious as to how one can go to a club/dungeon/private party/whatever and meet a stranger there, maybe have a few drinks before playing but all the same they are still basically a stranger to you. And then submit to this person you've just met!! For me, the element of complete trust is absolutely key in any d/s relationship (I use this term loosely here applying just to the moment of play, maybe replace it for the word 'activity') and it really confuses me to try to understand how some people can submit so easily in this way.
Opinions please :-)

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Who says it is easy? ;-)

Well, I guess there are several answers to that. One is that sometimes you simply starve because you have never tried it and want to so much, or you have tried it, and you want more! The need can be very powerful indeed, and it just sends you flying over inner barriers if indeed you have the prescense of mind to have any.

Believe me I have tried it that way, both ways! And I fell in love both times, love at first beating, as it were. The last one, where I turned Domme, we both fell in love, and I, who is a very down-to-earth-no-nonsense person, for the first time experienced what Shakespeare was all about with his Romeo and Juliet.

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Originally Posted by CaptainZeus

While I can understand how other people can have the ability to trust someone they just met to not take (undue ;) ) advantage of their bound body, it's something I personally wouldn't be comfortable with. Trust is really important, otherwise it's not as easy to relax into the scene.

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Yes, trust is essential. But it happens that people do trust others they do not know. I myself have felt often that especially male subs have trusted on first sight way beyond reason.
But it can also be that the place itself has such a good reputation that it inspires trust in people, and they take a leap.

And finally, there are lots of people who want to be a little scared - or even very scared ;-)

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That's why it's good to have someone who you know understands the subtlties of your limits. Once limits start getting breached, even accidentally, trust and enjoyment could plummet.

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The art is in the details I would say :-) But you have to start somewhere to learn what they are, there is always a first time, and there are always mistakes along the way. I do hope that such mistakes can be sorted, or every dom would have to be a god(dess).

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Even scenes without sex still require trust - at the end of the day you're still tied up and relatively powerless to a complete stranger. Just because you're not have genitals rubbed doesn't mean the act has no significance.

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Such experiences can be mind blowing!

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At the end of the day, it's another fetish, and we all have kinks we like to follow. To those of you who go to clubs for this, good on you! I don't know how you muster the courage, but congratulations on being able to.

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Some places do a lot to make people feel comfortable, like having contact persons to say hi, or evenings for newcomers alone (apart from the contacts), or women's evenings, or common safe words, or other good ideas.

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Originally Posted by ami_r90

Agreed. But would I be right, then, in assuming that clubs are more for those whose kink is purely on the physical side - getting tied, getting spanked, whatever - than when combined with the more mental/emotional side of actual submission or domination?

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I think it depends on what place you are talking about. I myself have mostly been in places where you could create really intense sessions. Either between two (or more) people, or as in organising a whole evening with a special theme, like Femdom/male sub evenings or the other way around, religious bdsm evenings, slave training evenings, or whatever.

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And if that is the case, where do us other folk go who aren't attracted by this scene/type of activity or wouldn't feel entirely comfortable there for reasons aforementioned?

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I think you cannot answer such general questions - it all depends all what style the various places prefer - or so I have found it. I think you can only try to get info on that from the organisers to get and idea of their profile.

If you cannot find any that suits you, the only way I can see is to organise some yourself.

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Originally Posted by _ID_

As far as who enjoys play scenes with or without sex... Well I've known many submissives to enjoy a play scene without sex, I've also know submissives that look at play without sex as having cake, but not being able to eat the frosting on top. I've not noticed a percentage really, as most submissives I know tend to prefer to be in a sexual relationship with their dominant. Not all mind you, but most.

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Do you mean that most submissives you know will engage in play (without sex) with others but remain monogamous to their dominant, or that they are exclusively in a relationship with their dominant and will not participate in play scenes with anyone else? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by DeityorDevil

Clear as mud?

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Getting there. Thanks :-)

It all depends on the individuals involved.

And not all clubs are the same, some promote no sexual contact, and others sometimes encourage it.

Alltough the emotional differences were not what was asked about initially, I assumed one would understand that there is also a hudge emotional difference between being in a regulated enviroment such as a club where a dungeon monitor may pull any dominant off his or her submissive the second they see things go too far and being off somewhere unregulated by one'self and at the complete and utter mercy of one or more others (somthing that simply cant happen in a club) where one is really and truely not the one in control anymore no matter what one may or may not have aggreed to before hand safe word or not. Becuase lets face it...no matter how much one may think they know another they can always be wrong. Real trust must be re-afirmed with real deeds, over a real course of extended time. The longer one knows another the more one can trust them is not nessesarally always true eaither. Wishful thinking doesnt change the practicality of whats actually happening.

The fear of the unknown will always be there if in no other way than in an unconsious manner. Which is probabely why some believe that:

Confrontation of one's own fear is a key stepping stone on the path of earning of one's stripes.

How many submissives and dominants are or are not polyamourous and what degree of submission or domininance one sees of course will vary between individuals and depend upon what is and is not allowed in the enviroment in which they are conducting their business and by their own natural inclinations conserning such things.

People do indeed go off with complete strangers all the time, the phenomena of the one night stand is in no way shape or form restricted to exclussively vanila dating scenes by any means.

I think what ami might be looking for is called a munch. ;) (I know it can't be this obvious!)

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Originally Posted by ami_r90

Do you mean that most submissives you know will engage in play (without sex) with others but remain monogamous to their dominant, or that they are exclusively in a relationship with their dominant and will not participate in play scenes with anyone else? Thanks.

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That most submissives will stay committed with a dominant, and not play with others.

I've seen people in committed relationships take on someone new for mentorship. For instance, a submissive is new, and wants to know what a flogger feels like. A Dom, whose actions and opinions the new sub trusts, and being in a committed relationship, could flog the submissive simply for the experience of it. The action could be anything really, caning single tails spanking flogging bondage needles, pick a topic. All that is required between the parties involved is that someone is going to get to experience the bottom or top side of whatever activity they are asking about. Another example of this would be if I knew a new Dominant who's got very little experience but is eager to learn but has nobody to learn with, I would show them on my sub the techniques I use, and then using my submissive I would allow them to try out what they learned while watching very closely to ensure they did things correctly. This instills both confidence and gives much needed experience that submissives are seeking from available Doms. The level of trust given by my sub to the new Dom is that they would follow my instruction, and not hurt her. No sex was negotiated or expected, as that isn't part of what was to be learned. That's the culmination of the experience for some, not the bulk of the activity.

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Originally Posted by ami_r90

I'm just curious as to how one can go to a club/dungeon/private party/whatever and meet a stranger there, maybe have a few drinks before playing but all the same they are still basically a stranger to you. And then submit to this person you've just met!! For me, the element of complete trust is absolutely key in any d/s relationship (I use this term loosely here applying just to the moment of play, maybe replace it for the word 'activity') and it really confuses me to try to understand how some people can submit so easily in this way.

Opinions please :-)

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In the first place, a good club, particularly if you know the crowd there, is designed to foster trust. You are out in the open, there are (or should be) people tasked with seeing that nothing is going wrong, you know that if you yell a safeword and it's not respected someone will intervene sharpish. It's not like going to a stranger's home, that's one reason people like to play at clubs.

That's the practical side, and on the mental side, imagining that the stranger you're playing with is your dream Master/Mistress fills the gap left by their being actually a stranger. A sub can always close hir eyes!

I don't go to clubs a lot, but I've played with almost-strangers a couple of times, though the "almost" was important to me, and probably to them as well. The first time, my local online community had agreed to meet up in a bar across the road from the club before it opened; and there I got talking to a chap I hadn't seen before, and who turned out to be just visiting the area. We got on well (the fact that he was discreetly wearing a collar helped us get off on the right foot!) so when we got inside, and found we were both on our own, I invited him to get over the nearest bench and he was glad to.

That was strictly on a mutual play basis, but a while later I had got into an online correspondence with a slave who had a long distance Master she rarely saw, and who was allowed to play with other Doms. So we arranged to meet at a local New Year party at a club, and as soon as we met I took charge of her and ordered her from one position and device to another all evening. But that was possible because we'd already laid the basis for it online. I doubt if I could have started from zero with someone I met after I walked into the club, but these things do happen.

These examples also cover the question of play without sex. I've had a lot of casual subs over the years, and whether they have sex is always part of the negotiation. I'd usually rather, but to borrow ID's image, I can enjoy my cake without frosting! In the first case I've mentioned, sex wasn't implied so I didn't expect it: he needed a place to stay afterwards, so I took him home and let him use my spare room, and gave him breakfast in the morning. In the second, she'd specified that her Master let her play with others but not fuck. That time it was me that needed a place, so she took me back to her hotel room, and we slept side by side in a double bed as peacefully as if I hadn't been whipping pegs off her nipples half an hour before :)

Which reminds me of another occasion, when for a change I was the one that ruled out sex. Thir and I were still in a long distance relationship, and she was OK with me playing with other women so long as it didn't include sex. But one time I played with a femsub from my local group, she got too hot to care what we'd agreed. And I decided that I'd discovered a test: if a naked woman is grovelling at your feet begging to be fucked, and saying "No" and watching her suffer is as much fun as doing it, you're a Dom!

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Originally Posted by leo9

I decided that I'd discovered a test: if a naked woman is grovelling at your feet begging to be fucked, and saying "No" and watching her suffer is as much fun as doing it, you're a Dom!

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LOL!
*wide-eyed* and backing away from you. You are quite cruel...

lol...I think whatever else he is, he is honorable as well.

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Originally Posted by leo9

And I decided that I'd discovered a test: if a naked woman is grovelling at your feet begging to be fucked, and saying "No" and watching her suffer is as much fun as doing it, you're a Dom!

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I'd agree this is a good test. One that I've had put before me as well. Numerous times.

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Originally Posted by _ID_

I'd agree this is a good test. One that I've had put before me as well. Numerous times.

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I love that test haha ;)