Religion and M/s relasionship

[13'sbadkitty]

For the most part I have no quarrel with someone having faith. I think faith can be a good thing, whether it's applied to your husband or your god. The phrase, "dependance upon God" confuses me, though. Just what are you dependent upon regarding God? You mentioned health and recovery earlier. Are you depending on God to help you? Or are you going to the doctor for help? If praying to God makes you feel calmer and eases your mind, naturally that's going to help you to recover. But you cannot rely solely on prayer.


I'm not trying to proselytize and turn people away from their gods, here. I am interested in how people feel they interact with their gods, especially on a personal level. I do try to argue people away from organized religions, since it's been my experience that following such religions puts an intermediary (priest, minister, rabbi, etc.) between a person and his god. So if you want to continue this we can start a new thread and have a frank discussion about faith, and lack of faith.

give it a name and i will happily attend...

no, recovery is not just about prayer. It is largely about action in an altruistic sense of the word, largely about doing what has worked for others based on the faith that i can stay sober doing what they did. its largely about being willing to believe that God can remove the things that diminish my usefulness to others. i couldn't stop using, i have stopped using. i did all i could do to stop using except for allowing God in and all i got was high. once i allowed god of my own understanding in and did what i could to get the garbage out...i got better. doesn't matter whether or not that isn't anything other than therapeutic ideas at work. Tried science and my own will, tried marriage, kids, good reasons and bad reasons, tried everything and nothing but this worked. give it a name and i will follow the thread there.

[Thorne]

Tried science and my own will, tried marriage, kids, good reasons and bad reasons, tried everything and nothing but this worked.

While not nearly as devastating as your addictions, I had tried for years to give up smoking. Nothing worked until I finally, in my own mind, decided that I HAD to give up smoking. No science, no gods, no magic powders. Just me deciding it was time.
Regardless of how you think you did it, I give all the credit to you. YOU decided you had to stop. YOU decided to change. YOU made that change happen. Don't sell yourself short. Don't give credit where it isn't due. Regardless of the paths you traveled, it was YOU who reached the peace of mind, whether through prayer or meditation, to make yourself change. I congratulate YOU for every bit of it.

[13'sbadkitty]

While not nearly as devastating as your addictions, I had tried for years to give up smoking. Nothing worked until I finally, in my own mind, decided that I HAD to give up smoking. No science, no gods, no magic powders. Just me deciding it was time.
Regardless of how you think you did it, I give all the credit to you. YOU decided you had to stop. YOU decided to change. YOU made that change happen. Don't sell yourself short. Don't give credit where it isn't due. Regardless of the paths you traveled, it was YOU who reached the peace of mind, whether through prayer or meditation, to make yourself change. I congratulate YOU for every bit of it.

while I appreciate your congrats, I believe the type of addict I am is of the hopeless variety. Meaning will power has nothing to do with it, i am completely beyond choice. The book alcoholics anonymous would explain way better than i ever could. the first 164 pages are the most relevant for what I am speaking of. It doesn't take away from my life, it adds to it. I am not of the belief system included in contemporary judeo/christian practices. I am more a pagan i guess they would describe me as. i check other on medical forms. i am honestly enjoying having a relationship with God. It isn't something that detracts from my accomplishments or responsibilties...it augments them.

[Thorne]

i am honestly enjoying having a relationship with God. It isn't something that detracts from my accomplishments or responsibilties...it augments them.

There's little I can say to argue against such things. For my own part, I don't see the benefit for believing in a supernatural being with no evidence and which cannot be shown to actually have any tangible effects in the real world. I see it as all being within you, and me. Perhaps the AA book was able to help you realize your potential, bring clarity to you and allow you to take back control. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, so I can't say one way or the other. I feel that we need to take responsibility not only for our own failings but for our own accomplishments in overcoming those failings.

Believing that your addiction is hopeless is giving in, denying your own responsibility. True, it could be a real, physical weakness, one which can be treated with medicines. Or it could be an emotional problem, which you have to take responsibility for. Either way, I don't see any gods making the way easier.

[sm8591]

Strange discussion on a BDSM forum. Religion has historically been one of the most effective weapons to impose power over people, make them believe blindly and you own them... Most wars mankind ever had were driven by religion and also today we see e new phenomenon: terrorism motivated by... yes religion. It proves how easy it is to make people believe almost whatever one clever Dom wants. Personally I understand the universe very well, I can live with the unanswered questions of physics and see no need to believe in any fairy tails. Any problem I encounter in live, I solve with my own thinking. For me it is a mystery why people can get religious. Political leaders need religion to brainwash people in order to rule them, they have a good practical reason to pretend as if they believe... but ordinary people? May be people hate to think and prefer therefore to believe?

[brwneydgirl]

but ordinary people? May be people hate to think and prefer therefore to believe?

I can do both (think and believe). Seems logical to me. Faith brings comfort and peace to my mind. I am an intelligent, thoughtful woman. I also believe in God. And as for tangible proof, I look no further than my children. Argue all you want.

[13'sbadkitty]

I can do both (think and believe). Seems logical to me. Faith brings comfort and peace to my mind. I am an intelligent, thoughtful woman. I also believe in God. And as for tangible proof, I look no further than my children. Argue all you want.

very well said, thank you...

Thorne, while i do believe that addiction is a disease I do believe it is a threefold disease. Science can treat the physical, people can treat the mental. God only can deal with the spiritual. I see miracles daily. I see them everywhere. If you don't see them, ok. I believe you can have a life as fulfilling as one who has a belief in some form of higher power. no argument there. i just believe that for me i needed something more. who cares if i am crazy? I am not on heroin anymore for years now and i am not breaking into your house, so we both can be happy with that.

[Thorne]

I can do both (think and believe). Seems logical to me. Faith brings comfort and peace to my mind. I am an intelligent, thoughtful woman. I also believe in God. And as for tangible proof, I look no further than my children. Argue all you want.

Belief in a god is not evil, or stupid, or crazy. Many people, now and through history, have been able to reconcile gods with their intelligence. It's when people try to make others believe in their gods that evil and stupidity come forth. That's the province of religion, not faith.

[Thorne]

May be people hate to think and prefer therefore to believe?

People have an innate need to know. That's where our curiosity comes from. And following that curiosity has brought mankind from the caves to modern society. The problems arise when it becomes important to know things which are hard to understand. Too many people are willing to settle for the simple explanations, regardless of a lack of evidence, because it's easy, it doesn't require thinking. That's where religion steps in. "God did it" is the simplest of explanations, even though there's no evidence for God or his creation. And when you are raised from infancy in a culture bathed in religious belief, you become a believer yourself. Getting away from that culture, and learning to think for yourself, can be difficult and frightening. Believe me, I know!